Power in Pause

Bob: 00:00

That's the good news. Listen, this is the good news for the human race, that if there's any habit I speak to the audience today, if there's any habit that's controlling you, we want to encourage you that God can break that pop and restore you to the freedom and the joy of not being a slave to any any habit. And I'm talking about whether it's a physical habit, whether it's bitterness or anger, controlling you, or any sinful practice that might be controlling you when I say sinful practice, any practice that's outside of harmony with the ways of God, Jesus wants to set you free, and this is the good news.

Nathan: 00:41

Hey, welcome to the Loveshaped Life Podcast where we see, experience and live the wonder of God's love. We're in season eight, episode one. Power in pause with me in the studio today is Bob. By the way, I'm Nathan, my good friend Bob is here in the studio. How are you, Bob?

Bob: 00:59

I'm doing fantastic. It's great to be here again. Nathan, to be part of a conversation talking about the beauty of God, absolutely.

Nathan: 01:07

And we've had a special guest for this season, Jan. The cool thing about Jan is Jan does not have a pastoral background. And you know Jan, right?

Bob: 01:15

I do know Jen. I've known her for several years. And Jan, welcome to the studio. Welcome to this podcast. We're excited to have you with us, share with the audience a little bit about yourself.

Jan: 01:26

Yeah, so I've known you for what, like five years now, at least over five years. I am from the States I was born in, the states I was made in California. As I mentioned, I don't have a religious background. I'm in the legal field. I'm a lawyer, but I come to that field by way of many other different professions. I was in the Navy, I worked in the health tech space, and I'm just very excited to be here for this conversation. Well, thank you so

Bob: 01:51

much for coming.

Nathan: 01:53

Yeah, we're looking forward to it. So we are picking up in like the midstream of Jesus. We've called at the mountainside address Jesus. So what's happening is Jesus has been gaining in popularity. The story is really carried best by Matthew the gospel writer, Matthew, one of the disciples. And leading up to this is Jesus' popularity is really exploding. And not just exploding in Judea, but exploding across the region. People are coming for miles, like days of travel to see this, this rabbi, this teacher, this healer. It's shaking up the world of his day. So he's gaining popularity, and it's getting to the place where he needs to really tell his disciples what this is all about. There's, there's plenty of like Word on the street, lots of conversation about this guy, this Jesus, being the next, like revolutionary leader. This is what's this is like the conversation His disciples are having. This is the conversation kind of running through the crowds. And Jesus needs to set the story, set the idea of the kingdom, the expectations of the kingdom, what he's doing, he's going to set that for the people. And so this is him officially introducing the kind of Kingdom He's establishing. So we've been through that, what I would call the first third, the famous part of that first third, or those opening lines, Blessed are the poor in spirit. We talked through. There's like 789, of those blesseds. We talked through that. That's the real famous piece. There's a few other famous parts of this speech, and in the middle section of the speech, Jesus talks about spiritual practices. And we're actually in that middle section, this middle third of Jesus talking about spiritual practices, one of which was Jesus teaching about prayer. So we talked about that last time Jesus talks about prayer. The Our Father is it's called in some circles. It's famous for a prayer. Sometimes when, when folks pray in groups, they'll pray this prayer together. Sometimes it's the only prayer a person knows who's not really familiar with religious background. But when that prayer comes out, it's like, Oh, I've heard that before. So we're, we're now coming in after that prayer teaching, and that's where we find ourselves in this setting.

Bob: 04:28

Yeah, I just like to add in regard to the prayer teaching. Remember, he started off teaching the people about how to pray, and he called, he said, to address God as your Father. That was, that was radical at the time. They had no I was that was really new for the people to actually address God as a father, and that you're actually a child of God. That was that this, it brings in this relational aspect, you know, that they just were unfamiliar with. And so he finishes up this prayer, and now he joins the section we're about to. Mm. Yeah, right, yeah.

Nathan: 05:02

I love that idea, father. I think we spent a lot of time on that in a previous episode. So if you haven't heard that dialog, I think it's episode A. Season seven would be a great season to go through, because we talked about prayer. We talked about that concept of people, of Jesus, introducing this really radical picture of who God is. One of the other things he's doing in this teaching is drawing a contrast between who he is in contrast to the religious leadership of the day. There's a pretty strong contrast. So you'll see that come out in the text that we have today, should we go to the text? And then yeah, we'll go in

Bob: 05:46

some Yeah, I do. Because remember, in the previous seasons, we talked about how Jesus really blew up the religion of the day. I mean, he just totally annihilated it. And was saying that, you know, that what we would what he called their righteousness, that that his followers it needed to have a better righteousness. And we talked about that. What that quality was about people's character and their goodness and right, he was just totally destroying their foundation, right,

Nathan: 06:17

the religious foundation. So, Jen, I'm curious when you come to this, this teaching of Jesus on the mountainside, I'm curious what your like first impressions are when you think about just kind of generically about this teaching.

Jan: 06:34

So what I'm actually thinking about, given the discussion that we've had and laying the groundwork, is we keep saying people and sort of Jesus as this revolutionary person, but I do think it might be important to define who that people was. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we're talking about religious leaders. Some people have no framework of, you know, religious leader and what that means. So who was this people? And then, why is that important for us as all different types of people today. So I guess I'm thinking about sort of his audience, you know, because he did have his followers, but there were a lot of other different types of people as well.

Nathan: 07:09

Yes, and we have, I think it is good to remember that. I think in the crowd there's all kinds of folks, from common, everyday walks of life to soldiers. Probably on the outskirts of the audience. We're talking like military personnel. We're talking moms with kids. We're talking the down and out. We're talking about all kinds of people from the region that are there. They've come from, some of them days away are coming to travel in to hear this teacher, and it's a pretty big crowd on the side of the mountain.

Bob: 07:46

Yeah, and remember, they came because they were thinking that Jesus was going to establish an earthly kingdom. So they were waiting for this announcement, but talking about the crowd and who was there? Those religious leaders were the leaders of what was the temple of the day. They were the ones that were instructing people as far as what God was like and what God required. So they were there. And there was the people, which was the a lot of the people were from the nation of Israel that was captive by the Romans. And so these people were oppressed. They were farmers, and now, all of a sudden, instead of farming their own lands for their own benefit, they had to farm their lands for the benefit of the Romans. They were just they were now the servants of their own land. And we can imagine that owning your own farm and now it wasn't yours anymore, but you were still planting and harvesting and and they were just taking what they wanted. So these people were burdened down. They were broken. They were just looking for hope. And then there was people from the outlying region that were not of the Jewish descent, that were considered Gentiles by the Jews, the people that were not even well liked by them. So there's all kinds of people there that had gathered together to hear this. I mean, if you can imagine the word got on the street that he was about to make an announcement. He was going to set up His kingdom. So people were there. They were there. They were listening. And remember, we talked about our previous sessions. He shattered those, those hopes, right? When he started off, the kingdom of heaven is like, and it wasn't a earthly kingdom that he was talking about. It was a spiritual kingdom. And what the qualifications were, yeah, so, so when you think about it, Jan, you mentioned you're thinking about who's in the crowd, which is really interesting, because we're thinking about who's in the crowd today, right? God's word. Human beings are broken. They're perplexed, they're challenged, they're questioning what life is all about. So human nature doesn't change. Our environment changes, but human nature and the needs, I don't think, change. At all still same type of people looking and longing for hope.

Jan: 10:04

And I think that's beautiful. You say that because I going back to our title power and pause, you know, depending on maybe what echelon of society or background song, we all define power differently. But you saw all the these different types of people coming out of the to pause and to sort of in Jesus, just masterfully, can speak to all of them at all the different places there are. I mean, you don't really see that in society.

Bob: 10:29

Very often true, yeah, and you're talking about power. And pause again, that they were, they were expecting an earthly power to be established where they could conquer the Romans and rule over the Romans. But Jesus was established in a different type of power. He called them the salt of the earth. He called them the light of the world. And that salt that they would have would preserve a society and impact a society based on how they treated people, right, right, like he was calling them to to love the Romans, you know. And that was the power. So we're talking about power. And pause. It's interesting. We're talking about God empowering human beings to impact other human beings lives in such a way that there's a heart change. That's what Jesus came to do, change people from the inside out. This was another radical concept too, if I might add, because the religious teaching of the day was, it was all outward forms. Remember, we talked about that in previous sessions. It was outward forms, and Jesus comes along to flip it to the inside, right? That the he wanted to change us from the inside out and still today, it's still the same today, exactly. I said humanity needs a new heart to give us new purposes and New Directions For Living. Yeah.

Nathan: 11:38

And I was thinking about that as you were talking the for me, the big thing here is that today's society is really about show social media, curated social media page. I mean, the truth is that, almost without exception, a person's social media presence is not an authentic story of who they are. It's curated. It's the it's the picture. It's the story of themselves that they want you to read, that they want you to see. It's not a genuine kind of slice of life. It's the slice of life that the as curated for consumption. And you know, whether that's in, we talk about businesses marketing. Big thing about marketing and making sure that the public face is good. You look at some of the recent exposes per se that have happened in different industries, and how we find out that these people that have a polished exterior that then behind it actually, they've done some really awful things, and they just try to keep it out of the public eye. That was the nature of the culture back then. The religious leaders were, in that sense, just the same. They had this complex or or very strong kind of theological structure, religious structure, they had these very public practices to demonstrate their religious zeal and religious credentials, but internally and behind closed doors, they were really corrupt. So that's the audience that Jesus is speaking into as a religious figure. He's got to differentiate himself from the religious pretense the religious what was the word I used last time? Was this idea of of religion as as like for show, for display, and Jesus is looking at a different kind of religion,

Bob: 13:56

inside out, inside out, right? So that brings us to our text, yeah. So where we were at, remember, was in our last session we had talked about the prayer of the Our Father, right? So this is that, that he had just ended that, and then he's flowing right into this next verse that we're about to read. So maybe can you read that? Jen, I

Jan: 14:16

can read it. Okay. And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others truly. I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret, will reward you.

Bob: 14:44

So Jesus throws in this concept of fasting, right? So maybe we can just unpack how fasting was used back then, right?

Nathan: 14:56

Yeah, I think that's good. I think the one thing I was going to mention here about. Hypocrites. Before we get to that, is the idea of, I heard this term used in, maybe, I don't know if it's like, a common term, but virtue signaling. So virtue signaling being like, if there's, let's say there's an event that happens somewhere on the streets of America, and so, and it's, it's this event that's like, politically and morally charged, and everybody rushes to their social media to make some kind of declaration of their position on the issue. And so I've heard it called virtue signaling. It's like, I'm going to make this statement on social media because I want people to know that I'm against that thing or in favor of that person. It's not really a genuine reflection necessarily, of how they live their lives, but it's them putting out this public image of how they want to be perceived. And that's what's happening here these religious leaders they were going through like these motions. I love the language, and I want you to talk to us about fasting in a minute, but I love the language that they were they were gloomy. So these, these were the religious leaders. When it was time to look like they were like, into the fast, they would make sure their face was like, downcast. This was not how they really felt inside, but when they went out in public, their face was downcast. They didn't do the normal rituals for like showering, as we would think of it today, showering and doing your hair. They were would just look disheveled and make sure that to the onlooker, it was very clear that they were in the midst of a religious practice called fasting. They would like make facial expressions, just again, very public display. It was a performance, a spiritual performance, religious performance, to look like they were in this mode of fasting, yeah?

Bob: 16:51

And while we're on that subject, before we get into fasting, you're talking about the hypocrites, right? Yeah, you look at the Gospels and the story as it plays out, Jesus often referred to the religious leaders of the day as hypocrites. I mean straight up. He used that word on a number of occasions. And if you look at the definition of a hypocrite, it's, you know, a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion, person who acts in contradiction to his or her state, beliefs or feelings, right? So you're seeing one thing, but really they're doing something else, right? A hypocrite is, yeah, that's what he has calling the religious people a day. So when he's bringing this issue here, about when you fast, don't be like the hypocrites. This isn't the first time he's mentioned this in this speech. Because, you know, just going back to our previous session before he taught the people how to pray, he started off here. He said, Take heed. It's in Matthew chapter six, verse one, he said, Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men to be seen by them. Otherwise, you have no reward from your Father, who is in heaven. Therefore, when do a terrible deed, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have their glory from men. But surely I say to you that they have the reward. So just a little bit before he talks about the hypocrites again in regard to their charitable deeds. And then he goes on, and he says, Here, he says, And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets that they may seem, my man, as surely I say to you, they had the reward. So three times he mentions here, in a very short period of time, that the religious leaders, their practices are hypocritical, right? Praying publicly, looking for display. They're giving away charity. They want to make sure everybody knows that they're giving something away to somebody. And then he mentions here, what, when you're when you're fasting, they're putting on a display of fasting. I want to ask the question, what was the underlying issue that Jesus was really going after when he was saying, don't be like them.

Jan: 19:10

Well, I'm not sure if I'm going to answer your question directly, but as we're talking about this, I'm thinking of the ways in which I personally am hypocritical. Okay, impressionable here, um, I think there's some underlying idea of your you're seeking worship that should only belong to God, right? You're looking for this glory and this honor. I've heard it used, for example, I like to work out a lot, and I run and say, you know, you look a certain way. And you're like, oh, I don't want to let this go to waste. Like people need to see, you'll need to know, see all this hard work. That's right, that's right. And so it's not exact, but I think we all you know, this sort of self seeking, looking for confirmation from doubt. World for some type of praise.

Nathan: 20:02

Okay, so that is exact. Actually, it may not be exact, like religious, but that's the exact idea. So I think that's a great example, because they were, the problem was self interest, and the second problem was that they were using religious so this wasn't, this wasn't working out in the gym to just look healthy. This was putting on that their their gym put on was a religious put on like they were making themselves appear religiously devout and astute and faithful to God, and that was the thing that they wanted to be honored for and recognized for by the same motivation, exactly the same motivation.

Bob: 20:44

So back to my question, and that was a great illustration, but Why was Jesus attacking it so much? Why was this so dangerous for His Kingdom?

Nathan: 20:59

I mean, if I'm going to answer. I think the place where Jesus goes in the previous part of the teaching is he'll use these comparisons. He'll say something like, You heard that, you know you're not supposed to kill somebody. But then he'll say, actually, in my kingdom, it's about how we think about people. We don't hate them. We don't call them names, we don't belittle them. So Jesus was taking these external concepts, these theological ideas, and saying, what I'm really looking for is not that you look religious, not that you become a religious person, but that your life is transformed and reflects the way of loving and treating people in my kingdom. You're changed on the inside. Okay?

Bob: 21:44

So again, you're addressing Jesus's kingdom, right? Because when he started off, you know, Blessed are the poor in spirit. Blessed are those that mourn when he started off, this original first speech that you call it right on the mountainside. He's talking about his kingdom. And he's talking about, blessed are those who see their need. Blessed are those that mourn. You know, Blessed are the meek, right? He's talking about meekness being a high place in his kingdom. Meekness is the opposite of selfish self seeking here, right? So when he's calling out the religious leaders, he said, Look, this is this, is this self seeking is not part of my kingdom, right? My kingdom is about other, sink, seeking, right? About about looking out for others and and this unselfish spirit. And instead of glory, they were receiving the reward because they were getting their glory from men, right? Yeah. So this was particularly what you would call offensive to Jesus, because it was so contrary to his character, into the character that the the soldiers or the citizens of the kingdom would make up that we, we wouldn't live lives he was saying he didn't want the people to live lives for self seeking, right? Yep, right. So this is this. This was really huge, right? Blessed are the merciful. Blessed are, you know, right? You know?

Jan: 23:10

Yeah, I think of him, him coming to heal. He wants to heal us and perfect us. And this idea of, if you don't even realize you're sick. You're not even going to the doctor, right? And so everyone has these different symptoms, whether it's, you know, pride, boastfulness, but they're not getting to the heart of the matter, which is what he sought to do. Yeah.

Bob: 23:33

And again, if you look at the storyline of Scripture, and you see this warfare, this spiritual warfare between God and and this angel that had fallen, we had talked about it before. He's named as Lucifer in the Bible, also the devil, right? So, so there's principles each of them is seeking to establish a kingdom. And we saw that the the where it all started in his rebellion, was self seeking, right, right? And so God's Kingdom is built on this other center right principle, right? And so Jesus, when he's calling out the religious leaders of the day, he said, look at your practices are not harmony with with the true God, right, right? Even though you're professing to serve God, your practices are really in harmony with this, with with a kingdom of darkness or, or this fallen angel to self corruption, right? Right? I'm really sorry. No, go ahead. It's really quite fascinating to me, because he's he's calling out, and he's telling the people, this is not what I want you to follow, right? Like when you're fasting, don't look for glory from men. Do it in secret, right, right, so that your Father in heaven will acknowledge that. Yeah, yeah. You know, when you're praying, don't go on the street corner trying to let other people see that you're doing this. Just pray in a prayer. Private place and commune and talk to your father in heaven when you're when you're giving a charitable gift, just give it quietly. You know, don't look for display or pat somehow, because you're given some type of gift. Because the this, these are the this is contrary to my kingdom conjuring my character, and this is not the character I want to develop in you, right? So I

Nathan: 25:19

want to go there, but we're going to take a quick pause, and then we'll be right back. All right. Welcome back. We we've titled this episode power in pause, and I want to kind of shift into thinking about that piece of this, this passage, so it begins with Jesus describing the behavior of the religious leaders. They are they're fasting. Yes, and fasting is a biblical thing. It's often in Scripture tied to food. So abstaining from food is kind of the most common use in Scripture, and sometimes in the passage, it would be associated with prayer. So fasting and prayer are sometimes tied together, sometimes fasting and sackcloth. So this is, this is putting on like a very basic drab garb clothing, and even putting ashes on one's head as a symbol before God of reform. So there's there's time description where that's talked about. There was a whole city in the Assyrian empire called Nineveh, ancient, famous city. The whole city, including the animals, went into a fasting mode. So it wasn't just in the Jewish framework. But it was also something familiar in other societies, of shifting the big idea, oh, go ahead. So, so

Bob: 26:48

what would be, as you're talking about that, what would be the purpose in their fasting? I mean, is it to gain favor with God? Is it to to just have a deeper experience? What was what would be?

Nathan: 27:00

Well, I think it depends. I think that depends, like these guys, their goal was, these religious leaders, their goal was to gain favor of society.

Bob: 27:10

Yeah, I get that. I'm talking about when we're talking about the fasting from a biblical standpoint, like, you know, when we're looking at how fasting was used, because fasting was it coming? It was, yeah, right. So what was the God's original intent? Yeah.

Nathan: 27:26

So in the case of Nineveh, which is a story of Jonah, by the way, though, the story of the guy getting swallowed by the fish, that city was a respect. They were terrified that God was actually going to wipe them out, based on nineveh's Prophet, on Why'd I forget the guys Jonah's prophecy? Based on Jonah's prophecy, they took it really seriously, from the king on down. And so that was a sign before this, before Jonah's God. It was a sign that the people of Nineveh were serious about changing their ways. So and then in you mentioned Queen Esther, when we're thinking about the just prepping for the podcast with Queen Esther, it was this, this idea of saying, Okay, we're very serious about seeking God's intervention. The Jewish people. On the case of Esther, her people, their life was in the balance, and she wanted God's help as she played her role in this, this moment, this crisis, and so it was. It was making space to be serious about connecting with God.

Bob: 28:34

Okay, that's good. I don't know.

Nathan: 28:35

What do you think? Either of you, yeah, I think that

Jan: 28:37

seriousness and that connection. But usually there was some sort of of crisis or something, and it's almost like you're going to another level, right? Like, like, what we normally do doesn't work. Say you're, I don't know, you're playing a video game, and you've made it a certain to a certain level, and it's like, okay, what? What I use in these levels? It's not going to work for me to progress to the nice level. So it was almost just, I think you're, you're acknowledging that, hey, I need more, more power, more and then it's, it's denying yourself and seeking

Bob: 29:13

so back to power and pause, right? So it was that pausing from your regular routine, right? We get caught up in routines as Europeans, right? Just kind of rolling with things. And then God allows circumstances to come our way too, that we need to take time out to really take a deeper look, right, that power and pause. You know, I think of like Nehemiah. During the time of Nehemiah, his people, Jerusalem, the city had been destroyed. And when news came to Nehemiah that Jerusalem, the Bible, said, laid in waste, he wept and he fasted and prayed because he was earnestly seeking God, because he wanted to know, what can I do to help right? So he paused from his regular routine to. Receive power, and fasting was that vehicle that helped him get more connected with God. Again, he wasn't earning favor with God. It was for Nehemiah. It's for us. Fasting is for us to to go deeper with God, right? And like you mentioned, Jen about you know your your your senior need, right? You're humbling yourself before God, and getting focused. I see, from a biblical standpoint, fasting was getting focused with God. You know, to go to that next level, like you mentioned, you used a Video, Video almost

Jan: 30:36

sort of like going up to him, not bringing him down to us. And I think sometimes you can get in a rhythm or, yeah, yeah, it's good. You're not seeing what's directly in front of you, yeah, to get it, because

Bob: 30:47

looking at the storyline of the Bible, the relationship, God is a relational being. This is a relationship, right? It's not. God is an authoritarian figure, and we've got to earn his favor. So I need better fast in order to get my life together. No, this is about going into a deeper experience with right, like knowing him in a deeper level. That's the beauty of it.

Jan: 31:08

Yeah, I do wanna say I think of like, if you have a partner and you guys have a routine where you wake up and you do the kids, you go to work, but then maybe once a month you like do something special to really sort of deeply, get to know them and to reset and to see where you are.

Nathan: 31:25

Yep, yep, no, that's good. And I think too, in the text, what's interesting is Jesus brings out this principle that when we do something religiously for the like, the likes and subscribes the attention, it gets us once, once, whatever practice we do is for external benefit, like immediate feedback, the practice itself completely loses its value, except for whatever immediate kind of social social credit we get. So what the idea, then, was that when, when we pull up spiritual practice out of the limelight, what it does is it, it, it allows us to focus on the purpose of that spiritual practice. Because Jesus says, instead of doing this, the fasting in this case, and making external changes so people know that you're fasting. He says, make sure that nobody can tell. So get ready for the day, like, if you if every day you you fix your hair up, you get your shower, like, and you you shave and all this. He's like, make sure that the day you're fasting, you do exactly the same thing. So when you go to work, nobody in the office knows that you're fasting. So when you're at the you know, walking about in town, nobody knows you're fasting. Because when we engage in spiritual practice, purely for the space it creates for us to connect with God, purely for the moment of pause with God. Jesus says that's when this has power, spiritual power, transformative. Spiritual power happens when the thing we're doing is purely for its connection potential with God, not for any external benefit.

Bob: 33:16

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Nathan: 33:23

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Bob: 33:48

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Bob: 34:06

Loveshaped Life your partner in the journey of seeing, experiencing and living God's love. Okay? So my question is, like, when we're talking about fasting, right? You're talking about fasting, most people perceive it fasting as fasting from food, right? But is that the case?

Nathan: 34:24

Oh, man. So no. I mean, I know what do you think?

Jan: 34:28

It's not so I personally will do food and prayer, but I have friends, I know people who will fast from social media, fast from anything within their routine that they just want to pause from. So I don't think it has to be food.

Bob: 34:48

Yeah, it doesn't have to be food, right? So, you know, it's just, it's good to realign ourselves, make sure along the way. I think fasting is healthy practice for realignment. You know that we had talked about. So it's not just limited to food, right? Like you said, social media. I've known a number of people that have fasted from social media as well, you know, just not because they were against social media or anything. They just wanted to it, to find its proper perspective in their eye, proper place in their in their life. So, but you mentioned that you, you, you fast from food in prayer. Share with us about that is an experience for you.

Jan: 35:28

I do, and maybe to contrast that, so I do do, maybe some form of intermittent fasting, so where I don't eat for longer periods of time throughout the day. And that's just something that I do for health reasons, but I find when I'm fasting from food and praying throughout the day, it unleashes like a power. It's like veils are released from my eyes, and a lot of times you can only see what's in front of you, and you get in this rhythm and but it's when I pause. It's like, I think of if a kid's running around and you're trying to tell them something, but they can't be still, so you can't even give them direction. It's good, whereas when I fast, I can hear God. I'm talking to God. I I'm paused enough to sort of it cuts out all the noise. That's what I found

Bob: 36:19

personally, thing you mentioned, and I'm just to unpack this journey a little bit, that you're you're fasting through the day and and seeking God, maybe in a deeper way, where you're praying a little more, and God is like unveiling things, pulling back the veil, so to speak. Why do you think that that experience is happening to you in that deeper level. I know you mentioned kids, maybe it's back to like the kids versus just your regular daily routine. Aren't you praying through the day, say, on your daily routine? How does this

Jan: 36:55

something about the hunger, that food aspect unveils like a spiritual world that I like you don't you don't know it exists. Like you are reciting verses. You're petitioning to God. You're like it something about going without food. It seems like you can smell food more like it almost takes you to like a different Battlefield, like a spiritual battlefield.

Bob: 37:20

So there's a type of almost cleansing happening, would you say, in your life, or clearing up your perceptions, getting clarity? I think that would be the word, right? You're getting better clarity. You know,

Jan: 37:31

truth becomes more apparent, like a an eternal truth, not just like, you know, I was a math major. So I liked like two plus two equals this. And you we have these, you know, truths that we see around us, but there's these spiritual truths that become very clear. You can be more introspective about stuff that's happened to you, and maybe cycles that I've been trying to get out of that I can't understand. It brings a clarity that so that found anywhere

Bob: 38:03

else life that's awesome, beautiful. Because this is what we're talking about, the practice of fasting and power and pause right to experience that. Because just listening to you, it seems like that was the result, right? You feel like you're being empowered more and because you're getting connected closer to God, and things are clearing up for you to be able so recently, a simple thing we it was a group of us, including Elton, our production guy, who's over here behind the cameras. We did a month of no desserts and no no snacks, right? So it was a group of us in a group chat, and the value of it for me, from my perspective, was reestablishing self control. Sometimes we develop habits and they just creep up on us and they they gain a greater control of us, and just staying away from that helps to put things back in his proper perspective, like power and pause like God is like, give me the power to realign control over appetite, which is a huge thing for us as human beings. It's the greatest of our senses. It's been the area, if you look at the storyline where the devil has attacked human beings to take them down, gain control of the appetite, gain control of all the other senses, you know, in our body. So that was the value, yeah.

Jan: 39:33

Can I ask you? Because I know, you know, a lot of times we say, you know, there's power in prayer. So what about the fasting gave you the self control that prayer, like a daily prayer.

Bob: 39:44

Can you clarify your question?

Jan: 39:46

Um, well, you mentioned that self control piece. And I guess just understanding, what do you think within the fasting gave you sort of the self control that, yeah, no,

Bob: 39:56

that's good because, like with anything, because we're talking about. Uh, fasting from social media, perhaps it's out of control. I have a gentleman that I know that sometimes he fasts from sports because he feels like he's watching it too much, right, and he wants to put it back in his proper perspective. So where that power to gain control again was gaining victory over not reaching for something when when you normally have been reaching for something, gaining victory, when you're when your taste buds are saying, Okay, you're done eating now, let's go for dessert, right here in Spain. So saying no to that, I think saying no is a healthy thing for us as human beings, so that helps put the control back. So now that the month is over, you know, you know, it was a bad habit. We were even my son. We were, we were looking for our dark chocolate after our after we ate lunch and night. And even, even he is like, now not going in that direction, right? Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So does that design

Jan: 41:04

your questions? Yeah? I think about the habits, I think they say 21 days to develop the habit.

Bob: 41:09

Yeah, cuz, cuz. Remember, the Bible talks a lot about, you know, temperance, right? And self control and the value of self control, and so Jesus

Nathan: 41:19

being self control. Don't use don't eat stuff. Don't consume stuff that's bad for you and the stuff that's good for you. Use it wisely, yeah, Solomon or state, Solomon talks about not too much, honey.

Jan: 41:33

And, yeah, moderation, all things

Bob: 41:35

moderation and and just being in control our habits are, is what builds the character. And so when we have healthy habits, we can have we can be in control. We don't want to be slaves. God doesn't want us to be slaves to anything. You know that as far as things that would be destructive for us, so temperance building, putting self control back into us as human beings is a gift from God, and this is part of the mission of Jesus, and restoring us back into this relationship with God is restoring self control back into man because it's a it's a privilege to in an honor, to have freedom to to not be a slave to any habit that can destroy us. That's the good news. Listen, this is a good news for the human race, that if there's any habit I speak to the audience today, if there's any habit that's controlling you, we want to encourage you that God can break that pot and restore you to the freedom and the joy of not being a slave to any any habit, and I'm talking about whether it's a physical habit, whether it's bitterness or anger controlling you, or any sinful practice that might be controlling you. When I say sinful practice, any practice that's outside of harmony with the ways of God. Jesus wants to set you free. And this is the good news, right, that humanity doesn't need to be a slave. So as far as the fasting goes, of anything, I think there's those little increments of doing to to restoring self control and breaking perhaps things that have held us in its grip.

Nathan: 43:18

Yeah, one thing that's going through my mind as I'm listening is this idea for me of

Bob: 43:25

well, before you go there, yeah, go there, I can remember, I want to say that you've been talking to me about a little device that you've been using to help you gain self control in regard to social media. Oh, yeah, she can dinner with us. That little device,

Nathan: 43:39

yeah, it's an app and an RFID tag. And between the two of them, it creates a it, like, gives you a way to lock down your your phone so you can't access apps unless you can physically be present with the device to make those apps available again. So it works pretty good. So how's that helping you? Oh, man, I've gained, like, probably hours in the last couple of weeks. When you say gained hours, hours where I'm not scrolling, like random YouTube videos, not scrolling, not just, you know, the knee jerk for me is go to the when I have a question, jump on the internet to search for something. So now, kind of that knee jerk reaction to jump on social media or to jump on the internet is it's not immediately available to me, so it's creating more space for me to choose how I spend my time, rather than getting sucked into how other people choose for me to spend my time. That's good. The thing I'm thinking about with, with this idea of fasting, is that sometimes we think about transformation in the in with God as this magical process. So let's say I'm I have a really hard time with anger that, you know, my kids say something out like and I spin up really quick. So. I have outbursts, and then after I'm like, boy, I really handled that poorly.

Bob: 45:05

So I say, Dear God, please, just being to the majority of parents, you're right. So I

Nathan: 45:09

said, Dear God, please help me with my anger. Often kind of the assumption we make is that God is like this magician, and he has a magic wand, in this case, a magic peace wand, and so like, if I pray, God waves his magic wand and I no longer will get spun up or angry or have the outbursts. What Jesus is actually communicating to us is that it's not magic we if we really want to experience spiritual transformation, life transformation. It's making this space for us. And God, I love the idea of you saying, where you said, When you fast, you become more aware of things that in daily life. Do you just kind of miss whether it's increased self awareness, and I think it's both increased self awareness, I think you also are alluding to increased God awareness that it's creating this space where God can shape us. So rather than God waving a magic wand that all of a sudden just reduces my anger responses, it's instead making a space where God comes beside me and helps me recognize, well, here's the reason you're triggering. You know, you really have not been spending getting enough quality sleep. So you're kind of on a baseline. Your body is not physically in in a rested enough state for you to manage your response in that moment. Or you might say, you know, you've been just, you really been binging the news, so I in that fast, I start becoming aware of practices in my life that are actually creating a climate, an emotional climate for me, so that when those challenging social interactions happen, I'm losing my temper, fasting is pausing to make that space where God can start talking to me, and I'm actually listening and and the magic that happens is where God comes close to me, the Holy Spirit's called a comforter, a guide, a companion. And really the shaping work of God happens more in these everyday, mundane ways, where I'm making space to be spoken to and to listen to God in this shaping process, rather than it somehow being this magical moment where God's like no more anger for you, it's really pausing. So Jesus is really teaching us that spirituality that's not really magical. It's making space for God to do something in our lives. And this whole fasting thing for me is one of those ways where we carve out this space and say, God, I'm really serious about this. I'm serious about seeing me more clearly and how I interface with other people, how I interface with you, and I'm really serious about how you are. What are you? What you're doing to shape me so that I don't go off the handle. I do want to handle those relationships better, but it's making space for the deep work to happen.

Bob: 48:06

So just commenting on that, because when Jesus was saying here, but when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your father, who is in secret place, and your father was seasoned secret will reward you openly. So are you saying that, like, as God is like revealing to you things to you, perhaps you mentioned about getting enough sleep or whatever, right? He's the rewards. Those are the rewards. In fact, the language you're seeking God, right? So he's probably seeing the reward you openly. So you're talking about this a relationship, right?

Nathan: 48:47

And rewards are sorry, oh, go ahead. Was I say reward here is not exactly like a trophy. It's, it is the benefits. Okay? So it's not just like the trophy language. It's, that's good. The real benefits in your life happen when you practice making space for God, just you and God, that the direct life impact happens when it's not for public credit, but for connecting

Bob: 49:16

with God. Because it sounds like, again, from listening to both of you, it's it's that opportunity to tune in to God, right? But also tuning into God, not only you turn into God, but you're also tuning in so you can hear God right, impressing you right or guiding you right to right to pathways to victory, right? Yep. So the value of fasting, you know, from whatever you're choosing to fast from, is the privilege of just getting a little more in tune with God. You described it well when you were talking about fasting from food and being able to experience God in a deeper way. This is what God wants to do for all of us. This is the space that Jesus was inviting these this audience into. This was new for them, and this was radical for them. And I think it might be radical for for people today, because oftentimes they thought of fasting as just a ritual that they did in order something they do to earn God's favor, right? What Jesus flips it into, is this relational experience, you know, and that's what God is seeking to speak to all of us today, right? Is he wants a relationship with us, you know? Go ahead, please. I was

Jan: 50:32

just gonna say, I think a big takeaway for me and my own fasting was I talked about this healing, and it's not the surface level healing, it's like this, like generational, like God has been revealing to me epigenetic factors that influence

Nathan: 50:46

epigenetic factors. So there's, like, a big medical word,

Jan: 50:50

as you know it says, I've heard the phrase like, it takes one to know one. And a lot of times I have found what can irritate me about others is stuff that I'm dealing with myself. And sometimes I think we deal with stuff we don't even realize, and it's step generations back, who best to know that than the Creator God, who right knows all your whole story as well? Um, but I also think in healing me, I'm able to go out and be healing to others, right? And so it's these to have healthy relationships, you need to healthy people. And so we see all this pain and suffering around us, and our and our heart is breaking. And it's like, you know, healed people can heal others. So God works in these exponential ways. I've seen personally. And it's like, the most beautiful thing there aren't words to contain, and it's, it's very simple, then it's also like indescribable. And so you see these contrasts,

Bob: 51:46

yeah, and I just want to add to that, the mission of Jesus. He came to heal the brokenhearted. He came to bind up our wounds. He came to set the captive free. You know, this is, is what he came to do. So as you're talking about that, we're talking about, that that experience that he's offering us in the journey, just like you know, you were mentioning, as far as you know, this process, instead of of God speaking to you and guiding you, right, this is, and you're talking about things from generations, right? That God's revealing. He's bringing healing, right? He's bringing healing to you, and this is what he came to do. This is the good news again, the Savior of the world. These are the practical aspects of what Jesus has made a way for, right?

Nathan: 52:34

And I think it's huge for us to really emphasize that the healing process, again, is God working in the flow of our lives. It's not some magical moment where we have like this supernatural encounter. I'm a believer in miracles. There's miracles in scriptures. In Scripture, miracles in the story of Jesus, but the most common way of transformation is the long road of walking with God, of self discovery and of trusting his shaping process. I wanted to just

Bob: 53:06

momentarily sorry, I want to add to that, yeah, I think it's just as much of a miracle. It's just as much of a different kind of Yeah. It is from an instant like miracle to this miracle of this walking with God, right? You know, right? And the healing process is taking place. So that is a miracle

Jan: 53:23

in itself. It is. And I think we've been talking about the relational aspect, which, to me, means it's a journey. So there's, right, it's no, like, Oh, I'm healed. Like, there's constant growth. And I think any of us in relationships, like, it's not gonna be, Oh, I did that good thing for you. Like, I'm not doing anything else. It's like, Who wants a friend like that? Like this is a journey. So there's no the healing just gets better and better and sweeter.

Nathan: 53:49

So the thing I wanted to mention is mindfulness and meditation are actually really common practices, very widely accepted, and the the kind of the underlying concept, if you look at the Buddhist concept of meditation, is this idea of focusing into the moment, and of of detaching and kind of just being being, instead of having, like, a lot of distractions in life. Instead of being attached to expectations, my expectations or others, I'm coming to this place of just being at peace with what's happening. The thing I want to contrast here is that so in part fasting, there's some similarity there, right, in the sense that I'm detaching and that I'm kind of focusing into the moment. The thing for me that stands out is that what I'm doing with the process doesn't end with just detaching and coming into the moment. That coming into the moment is a space for encountering the supernatural. So So for me, that's the powerful difference. Is that I'm not just practicing mindfulness, I'm not just practicing coming into this space of being at peace, but I'm making space for an encounter with the supernatural. And for me, that's what you mentioned, these powerful experiences with God, because in your as you're practicing fasting, as you're practicing pause, you're you're it's not just you figuring out a way to live life better. It's you making space for a supernatural encounter with a supernatural being who is coming into shape and walk with us and transform us. For me, that's a radical difference between like just, just the practice of mindfulness with a practice of meditation. That's really common today is that, in the way of Jesus, it's the belief that we're coming close to a supernatural being who's forming and shaping us. So we're opening our lives to someone who has the capacity to transform and shape us in ways that we cannot do on our own. And I think that's an important contrast. So there is this idea that similar, we're making space, we're simplifying, we're focusing and removing distractions. But the point is for a connection to flourish, and that, for me, is the power of the way of Jesus. And what do you think about that? As far as a contrast

Jan: 56:34

between, we need, like, 30 more minutes. I did have some like questions about what she said, but again, I think we need a lot of time delve into that,

Nathan: 56:43

so maybe we should

Bob: 56:45

wrap it up. I think it might be a good idea. Yeah.

Nathan: 56:49

So what do you see today? What's the big C?

Bob: 56:54

I think I see a God who, again, is seeking to teach us all not to follow the principle of self glorification, but to follow the principles of of relational relationship with him for this healing experience, so that we can be like Jan mentioned. You know, we Healthy People can help bring build healthy relationships, right? So Jesus wants to heal us. So what do I see in it? I see a God that is desiring to bring us into space to find that healing with him, and not looking to follow a religion that's like full of display, but an experience with God. So yeah, you

Nathan: 57:47

got anything see,

Jan: 57:50

maybe just simple. I see just surviving and thriving, and a God who wants Abundant Living and just inviting us to make the space for thriving. Yeah, yes.

Nathan: 58:04

So that's really experienced too. So experiencing his his work in our lives, his shaping work, and then living right, it shapes us into people who thrive.

Jan: 58:16

Say, Take a chance, like just take a chance, pause and just let him work. Yeah, you have nothing to lose,

Nathan: 58:22

nothing, that's right, nothing to lose. Yeah, so that's a wrap for today's Power Star. Yeah, yeah, pausing to to experience His power, power and pause. That's right, that's right. So that's a wrap for today. We want to make sure you like, subscribe and comment in our whether you're on YouTube or find this on other platforms, make a comment, share it with a friend, and until next time, lean into the Loveshaped Life.

Bob: 58:58

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Nathan: 59:15

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