Reframing Reality

Jan: 00:00

No, I like the contrast, you said, with good and evil, because I think I also think of the truth and lies and this idea that light is the truth and being honest with that truth. Because if we think of during Jesus days, you know, there was prophecy and so on to say that he was the Messiah. They had the Messiah right in front of him, and they missed it. I think of in my own life, when I've had these truths in front of me, but I I chose to sort of live in this fantasy space instead of coming to reality. And it's like in that darkness, like you sort of find comfort in that darkness instead of going into that truth, that light. So

Nathan: 00:42

welcome. To Loveshaped Life podcast where our dream is to see experience and live in the wonder of God's love. We're in season eight, episode three, and our title is reframing reality. Today with me in the studio is Bob and Jan, so glad you're both here. Thank you. Yeah, good to have you for this third episode, by the way, before you forget, make sure to like and subscribe that helps to get our viewership up, and we'd love your support in doing that. So we are in the middle of this middle section of Jesus teaching on the sermon, Sermon on the Mount, on this mountain side. And the first episode in this season, we talked about making space for God. Pause for what was it? January, last time, pause for power. And then the last one, oh, man, why am I forgetting so our last episode?

Bob: 01:43

Well, I think there's a correction. I think Jan's saying it's power. I think it's power and

Nathan: 01:47

pause, power and pause. Maybe we need to redo this little section. So, no, it's okay. So, but the so the last episode we we talked about where our treasure is, and the idea was the treasure is first relationship with God, and second is character, like who we're becoming and how we relate to others. That is the great treasure. And then today, reframing reality, we're looking at the next set of texts, Matthew six, if you want to check out Jesus words as recorded in Scripture, and I'm going to read them, unless either of you have something you wanted to say before we jump into the text, I think we're good. All right, let's do it. The eye is the lamp of the body. So if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness. How great is the darkness? Initial thoughts either of you on these words of Jesus,

Bob: 02:57

the things that jump out at me is, there's a lamp, right? There's a lamp, and then your eye, if it's good, there's light and then, but if your eye is not good, is darkness, right? So that's kind of what jumps out at me.

Nathan: 03:11

That's what jumps out. How about you? Jen, initially, on

Jan: 03:15

just this idea of, like, this idea of your eyesight and maybe distortion, okay? And just like the deception and stuff that can come with a distorted reality, well,

Bob: 03:27

that's good. So as long as we're talking about the eye and distortion, when the Bible's talking about, I what's it talking about? Is it talking about your physical eye? I mean, what's your soul? Your soul? Okay?

Nathan: 03:37

Soul? Yeah. I mean, I think of perception, however. You know, talk about rose colored glasses, right? Yeah.

Bob: 03:46

Well, I, in fact, I have a text right here, if I might read it to the one of the earlier do that this time. Pardon, we'll let you read the text. Oh, thank you. Yeah. So, so one of the early writers was Paul, and he was talking to the, this group of people. They were in Ephesus. They were known as the Ephesians. And so he's saying this to them, that he was praying for them. This was a prayer that he would pray for them, that God would give them the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened, that you may know what is the hope of of his calling, right? Talking about the eye, right of your understanding being enlightened. So when the Bible is referring to the eye, it's not just referring to a physical eyes, talking about that our minds, you know, the perception of the mind. So Jesus, here, he was saying that, you know, if your eye is good, it'll be full of light, right? So, and, but if your eyes not good, like you had mentioned genuine distortion, like distortion, then you'd be full of darkness.

Nathan: 04:46

So, so what do we think about today when we think about the eye? I mean, I'm thinking about is, I look at this, this teaching of Jesus, the eye is a, it's, it's. Is we're part of how we take in information, right? So Jesus is specifically pointing. He didn't talk about your foot, you know, if your foot's evil, you know, if your foot is not, you know, full of light your whole body. He didn't talk about the foot. He talked specifically about the eye. So there's something about that Jesus is highlighting, of all the things he's focusing on he he specifically points to the eye. It's interesting. It doesn't call it the ear. I think that it would include the ear like perception in general. But he does talk about the eye.

Bob: 05:34

Well, we're very visual people. We're very visual in Yes, I don't know about YouTube, but I, for me, I learned the best through visual, right? I mean, I love to read and everything, but if you combine that with illustrations and it's visual, it's, it's just, it just pulls me right in.

Nathan: 05:52

We'll call it eye catching. Yeah, I catch that's like a media term, right? Eye catching, something that's for eye candy, is another one. Our culture is hyper visual, right? We we think of how things look just on the podcast set, like what we have a little chair there with a bear on the chair, and the bear was laying down instead of sitting up. We wanted it to look proper, because we're very visual. So this idea the lamp. Why does Jesus compare? Or what is he getting at when he says the eye is because a lamp is a luminous, something that illuminates, right? So what is this concept that Jesus is getting at? Where the eye is in somehow illuminates the body?

Jan: 06:35

I can tell you as sort of what my mind is thinking right now. I think of like a brain or a heart, like you can take it out and you could feel it, but the mind is almost a sort of intangible thing. So this idea of sort of this, this light shining into that, like unknown, I don't know, sometimes my brain sort of going somewhere like that.

Nathan: 06:55

So okay, yeah, that it's different than just, like a heartbeat that's pumping

Jan: 07:00

something that's tangible, like, if I were to die, you could take my heart out, maybe give it to somebody else, but my mind,

Nathan: 07:07

once you die, your mind is finished, like your brain. It's not something you can hold and right? I don't know. It's different. That's good. That's good.

Bob: 07:16

Well, again, referring to the perception, right? Yeah, the mind, the perception. I think of that verse in the Bible, it says that, As a man thinks in his heart, so is he, you know, as we think, so we are, so who we become starts at the level of our thoughts. I mean, if all of us look in a mirror, we can say that the person who we are is ultimately the result of how we're thinking, right? So if the lamp of the body is the eye being the mind, that's what's going to bring either light into us or darkness, right by the things that we're focusing on with our minds.

Nathan: 07:55

There's a couple of things here. So one is, you're saying just the content that we're taking it. So let's I mean, right? What does that mean when we think of just the content we're taking in? Because I think there's a second layer here that we need to think about. But let's talk about content. How does content

Jan: 08:12

shape us by beholding you become changed?

Nathan: 08:15

So yeah, I'm back that tell us, like, What do you mean when you use that phrase?

Jan: 08:19

So for example, if I am consuming, like, a certain type of media, or things like that, like, you know, it starts getting enveloped in, like, my affections and, like, changing the way I think about things and so on. So even if it like, it starts changing, you know, I think, from the inside and then eventually out.

Nathan: 08:42

So there is a real, like a literal sense that what I consume, it's it's like coming inside of me and shaping me. I think

Jan: 08:53

it's the same with food.

Bob: 08:55

Like, yeah, you are what you eat is the same. So you are what you eat.

Nathan: 08:58

Sclerosis, they did a test I watched, like this health video. And there's probably many places this shows up, but a person needs, like, a big juicy burger, like just a regular, high fat steak burger, or whatever. I'm vegetarian, so I don't really know burger burger terms, but some kind of high fat food. And they do a blood draw shortly after that, and you can see the burger fat in that blood draw. I mean, I think it may have to settle out or something, but it's visible. And then let's say you do the same blood draw, either before the meal or, like, 12 hours later, and you can visually see the difference. And that's what's talking about, right? Like, there's physical impact from

Bob: 09:39

the so is there a test that you can do by the things you take into your mind. And, well, that was a choice question. What's there? Is there a bunch of fat that's

Nathan: 09:48

a great question. So what is the test? That's my question. What is the test?

Bob: 09:51

Well, again, we are what we eat. Is a man thinks in his heart, so is he? So we're going to become by what the. Like what we consume on a regular basis, you know? So what's the test is what's being produced in our character? Because it's become who we are. So we make, we make decisions too. We in decisions, make us right, right? So those decisions are based off of how we're thinking. You know? It's, it's the lamp, the mind, the eye of the mind.

Nathan: 10:21

So is it worth pointing out that in in media today, the media landscape is pretty much refined, to give you more of

Jan: 10:35

the stuff you like alluding to, like algorithms, like the

Nathan: 10:39

algorithm is and so I can be like, think that I'm that I am like, I have these well formed, clearly thought out, well developed positions. But in fact, what's happened is I've just consumed information that has led me to those conclusions without realizing that actually they're not as they're not as well thought out and informed as I think they are because of the content and because of the the environment, the intake environment that I'm sitting in. Does that I'm sitting in, does that make sense?

Jan: 11:22

Yeah, like, echo chambers, right? And I think you've had a lot of, like, really smart people say, like, Einstein or something towards the end of their life, say they realize they know absolutely nothing. Like, the more you know, the more you're like, I absolutely don't know anything, right, right, right?

Nathan: 11:39

So content, so being thought, I mean, I think in Jesus is talking one layer is talking about us being thoughtful of the content we consume. I don't think we can say that enough. If we want to reflect the way of Jesus, we really should be thinking about content. I look at like I I hear I so I hear friends talk about issues, society issues, political issues, whatever. And sometimes they just want to get on my social media page and say, take a break. The world will be there in three months from now, whether you consume any news about the world or not. So what if you just put the whole thing on pause and focus on who you're becoming as a person. And after you've spent some time kind of doing that, then maybe you can think of re engaging. Because I just I feel like so many people are getting wrapped up in these information bubbles, these consumer bubbles, and they're not really spending time thinking about who they are and who they're becoming. They're lost in the world of information, and they can't detach from it. I don't know. Is that going anywhere with you? Or is it just like falling flat?

Bob: 12:55

It's going somewhere. I mean that that's the world we live in, right? That it's coming to the point where people aren't thinking much because of especially in the social media area or wherever, not even social media, but the algorithms are sending you things that you Googled before or what they think you might be attracted to. So it's just feeding you more information, more information to try to draw you in. So there's a danger there, but still, like Jen mentioned by beholding, become changed what we're feeding upon, we're becoming like. So that, back to the text. You know that with the the the lamp of the body is the eye, right? And if your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light, right? So, if your eye is good, there's a another translation that says, if your eye is single, your whole body will be full of light. You know, like having a focused mind that we're focusing, in order for that light to shine in us, right? In order for that light to become part of us, we have to make a choice. Yeah, making a choice.

Nathan: 14:02

So that word healthy here can also be gracious. So this is the second thing I'm thinking of. Is there's the external, just the purely information, but then there's this layer where I'm taking information in and I'm processing it. So when we talk about reframing reality, there's another layer of how we're perceiving it. So if I look, if I engage in my relationships with jealousy, that's like the lens is jealousy, then I'm going to filter everybody's actions toward me through that so whether they intend them or not, it's going through that layer of jealousy is going to then be consumed and taken in and shape me, and I think that's part of how the darkness comes in.

Bob: 14:53

You know, I want to go back to at the beginning of Jesus's sermon. Here, we would call it at the beginning of. Remember he said that you are the light of the world, right? He's talking about us. We're light. But there's, there's in another passage he said that. He said, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. You know, that's not in the Sermon on the Mount here, but that's what he said. I'm the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness without the light of life. So in order for that light, the light that Jesus was talking about, was the light that comes through him, which is the very life of God into us, right? That that that's how we become good. Anyways, because none of us are good of ourselves. We're good, is it because of what God is doing? But if thine eye is single, your whole body will be full of light, right? So if my eye is single to focus on God and His ways, then my whole body will be full of light because I'm choosing to follow, I'm choosing to practice again principles of the kingdom. It's a light and darkness. This is, this is about a warfare between good and evil, right, right? And good and evil. And oftentimes, in the Bible, is comparing the good to light God and the evil to the enemy, you know, just the devil and his kingdom. So light and darkness is very common verbiage in the storyline of the Bible. So when Jesus is talking about this light, it's talking about God being in, you

Jan: 16:26

know, I like the contrast, you said, with good and evil, because I think I also think of the truth and lies and this idea that light is the truth and being honest with that truth. Because if we think of during Jesus days, you know, there was prophecy and so on to say that he was the Messiah. They had the Messiah right in front of him, and they missed it. I think of in my own life, when I've had these truths in front of me, but I, I chose to sort of live in this fantasy space instead of coming to reality. And it's like in that darkness, like you sort of find comfort in that darkness instead of going into that truth, that light. So something else I think about?

Bob: 17:03

Yeah, I'm thinking now that you mentioned that in the beginning of the gospel of John talks about Jesus coming into this world, and it says light came into the world, but men chose darkness rather than light, right? So Jesus was that light, but men made a choice to not accept it. So then their whole bodies become full of darkness, just like us. Right? We have to make choices, whether we're going to yield to God and follow His ways or not. So if we're yielding to God, then our characters, our life, is being full of the character of God, that light, that truth, as you would say, right? But if not, it's nothing complicated here, right? It's just two choices to make either light or darkness.

Nathan: 17:48

Well, what you're talking about is fascinating, because there, at the time of Jesus, there were religious leaders who were hang on my iPads giving me trouble here. Here we go. Religious leaders who were seeing the information the prophets, the same information that others who believed in Jesus saw. There were crowds of people who were, in other words, they were looking at it through a lens. And I think this is kind of where you were getting when you you you had a lens that you looked through life at to determine what you think about something, or why you believe it, or why you should put it off, like not face the truth, because there was a lens you were looking through to Make that value judgment.

Jan: 18:40

Right? It's a lens. I think it goes to like self, probably sort of like a, maybe a fear, yeah, not ready to face the truth, right, right? So before choosing to live in the why, rather than,

Nathan: 18:56

okay, true. So we see,

Jan: 19:00

I can give examples personally.

Nathan: 19:02

I mean, maybe we don't want to make a confession here, but, but, I mean, that's the practical thing. I think we do need to stop and say, Okay, what is the what's the lens that I'm looking at? Am I willing to look at truth, or is there something that I'm afraid that I'll have to give up or or surrender or abandon or change that lens. If that lens is clouded or dark, then what's filling me, Jesus says, is darkness.

Bob: 19:33

I just want to say this, that when, when you're in that position, and God is speaking to your heart, you're wrestling with something you're wondering, do I really want to give this up? I just want to say, from personal experience, God will give you something far better, right? He's not seeking to cut off anything in our life that is is not destructive to us, right? So he just wants to give us joy and happiness and so what we perceive. It as something so valuable that we don't want to let go of, but God sees it as something that is destructive to us when we learn to just trust him that he's got what's best for us and rest in that. You know,

Jan: 20:15

that was with the rich young ruler that we talked about. He said, You know, I've honored you in all things. And then Jesus presented him with this truth, and he wanted to keep those earthly treasures. Yeah, he

Bob: 20:27

wanted to keep it earthly treasures. You know, I think of this verse in Psalms 36 verse nine, it says that, for with you is the fountain of life in your light, we see light talking about God. God's the fountain of life for all creation. He created it all right? He sustains it all by His power. He's the fountain of it. So he's inviting us to come into His presence, to draw life. Every day. When I'm talking about life, I'm not just talking about the physical life, I'm talking about the inside of God, refreshing us and giving us fresh supplies of of of life on our spiritual side of the journey. So he's the fountain of life. Come and drink, right? And as a result of drinking and seeing him the beauty of who he is, that light will will shine in us, that light which is his life, right? So just reading it again, for with you as the fountain of life in your light, we see light, you know. So our eyes get more opened to see more of his beauty, the more we take in. And I want to add to that that Jesus said, I only do what I see My Father doing. Jesus had that eye that was single to living for the glory of his Father, right? And he desires us to to choose the same that we're we're citizens of the kingdom of heaven, right? We're choosing to live in this earth, right, following the laws of the land, the civil government, but our real home is in heaven, and we're choosing to live out the principles of God's kingdom here at Earth by loving others the way God has loved us. That's right. We live in the light.

Nathan: 22:13

That's good. So with that, we're going to take a pause. We've got a message for you, and then we'll be right back.

Bob: 22:19

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Nathan: 22:26

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Bob: 22:50

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Nathan: 22:56

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Bob: 23:09

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Nathan: 23:16

All right, welcome back. We are talking about how the eye is the lamp of the body. Did you have something else you want to say? I think during that break you were talking about wanting to reflect more on Did you say light? Yeah. Well, Jesus

Bob: 23:33

practically speaking again in John chapter 12, he says this, the light is among you. Only a little while longer he was speaking of himself, right? The light is among you, only a little while longer, walk while you have the light. Keep on living by it, so that the darkness will not overtake you. He who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. He is drifting aimlessly again. Jesus is saying, you know, walk while you have the light, when God has shown you, perhaps a way of living or convicted you, when I you say convicted, maybe you're bothered by something in your life and God is speaking to you, then I need to turn in another direction. We need to follow what He's showing us, right? Like if I need to forgive somebody, and I haven't forgiven them, and I choose to do so, right? I'm walking in the light. Does that make sense? Practically speaking, I'm walking in the light. And as a result of walking in the light, God is shedding more of himself in me, right? So, in other words, so we have to walk. Sorry, we have to walk. We have to choose walk. Means, in the Bible, is referring to how we're living, the choices we're making. It's not talking about physically walking. So we still have to make these choices on a daily basis. How we're going to live, right? Do I want to live in light or do I want to live in darkness? Right?

Nathan: 24:51

You know, and living in light simply means doing life God's way, the way of love and goodness as he. Reveals in Scripture, and as he reveals in his own way of treating and interacting with us. So So then, in other words, if I say, as I take and I think, by the way, that this topic and the fasting topic we talked about are actually related, because fasting is a place where is that pause to make space for God to help me see what's going on inside of me that's affecting how I perceive the world, how I perceive what he's has for me in Scripture, as well as how because how I perceive the world, then it actually affects how I treat people, right? Because, if I'm looking at everybody with jealous, with jealousy, like, that's the lens. I'm also going to relate, then relate back to people with jealousy.

Bob: 25:48

Yeah, you know, you mentioned that. You know, I think of Jesus said, except the man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven, right? So being born again is when I'm accepting Christ into my life as my Savior, my life and and he's offering me a new heart, a new a new beginning, and a new way of seeing life and living life from right. So the seeing right, except man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Now I'm seeing life from a different perspective, right? My outlook has changed. How I see people has changed. My worldview has changed. It's a beautiful experience, right?

Nathan: 26:25

But then what you were saying is, if at some point I say, Wait, I'm not going there, then there's a In other words, I'm making progress in a relationship, making progress in how I'm connecting with someone as I spend time with God, he's shaping me. But then I say, Wait, I don't want to go down that road that once I do that there, there comes a point where, where I block the ability to continue growing.

Bob: 26:55

Yeah, I want to go back to Jan in her original comment about perception, right? That that when we're choosing to not follow light, the perception of our mind is changing, right, right? So that this is what the Bible is talking about, this darkness coming upon us. It's how we're seeing things. We're no longer seeing things, maybe from God's perspective. Now we're seeking to justify ourselves in our in our bitterness or our anger or our hatred. Do you see that thing for our prejudices? And this is the darkness it comes over our minds as human beings. That's why there's all there's true freedom by walking in God's ways, so that, because when we're when we're walking in darkness, like I read earlier, we're walking aimlessly, or lock walking in light, were free. You know, I believe that the devil has made it out to think that disobedience to God, when you disobey God, like God, is arbitrarily punishing you. That that's just not true when we're when we're not walking in harmony with God, there's a there's a wage to pay as a result, consequence, natural consequences, as a result of the choices we're making, right? That's the truth of it. Yeah, God hasn't changed, but we're changing because of the choices we're making, right?

Nathan: 28:14

So, so in like, let's say jealousy, because I use that, yeah, whatever reason, I use it as an example. So if I'm a jealous person, the there are consequences for being jealous, like in a relationship, you start having some very practical dysfunctionality in your relationships. That is not God coming in and saying, Boy, you're jealous. I'm going to get you for being jealous so he, like, goes in and messes up our relationships. God doesn't have to do anything for jealousy to have that impact. When I'm jealous, then there are natural consequence that what you're talking right, controlling, right, you're no longer secure. You know, I'm saying, there's so many things as a result of that that just, just makes life miserable. So when, then when you're suited So, but that's what you talk about when you're talking about, like, oh, obeying God, which I think you had mentioned, doing life God's way. There are also, like, there's an aftermath to that as well. So when I choose I recognize jealousy. I'm taking that pause, that fasting time. It's becoming clear that, man, you're a really jealous person. Have you seen how you show up in the workplace? I shouldn't look at it just you, but have you seen how you show up in the workplace, how suspicious You are of your peers and how afraid you are of them getting credit? And then I reflect, and then God wants to reshape me to where I'm able to be comfortable in the person he's given me comfortable in his love and I can release that. There's an aftermath to that that my co workers then start to see, wow, this is a brighterness. There's a lighterness in our interactions. There's he's open to ideas in the meetings. I don't know. What do you think about that?

Jan: 29:56

No, I I agree with that, and I think we talked about this. On a previous episode, but it's, it's a heart issue, right? So these are symptoms, so going to the great physician, our Creator God, and having him unpack that with you, what is triggering that and healing you? And then I mean just Abundant Living like, who I don't think anyone like, wakes up and like, I want to be jealous today. I want to do this today. So it's like, how can I be healed of this? I don't think

Bob: 30:28

anybody wakes up saying I want to be jealous today, but if you're watching enough stuff dealing with drama and jealousy, you now start living it. So it's like, you want to be in this drama, because it kind of, I don't know, must do something for you just to be in it, right? So it's just the nature, the horribleness of it all, you know. But again, living in harmony with God's ways, there's nothing greater than to me, than laying your head down on a pillow at night knowing that all is well, between you and fellow human beings and you and God, to have that peace of mind is just a great treasure. Yeah? Me, yep,

Jan: 31:09

a huge treasure.

Nathan: 31:11

So I was looking at the text, and I'm just noticing a couple of things here. And then there's one more place we want to go. But Jesus said, if your eye is healthy. So if it's if you're if the way you see the world, the way you're framing reality is, is healthy, is single, focused on God is gracious, is genuine. These are some ways of seeing that that focus, your whole body is full of light. I think that's a pretty powerful concept to see if I, if I see the world through the lens of God's love, my whole inner being is luminous. But in the contrast here is that. But if your eye is bad or corrupt or like jealousy, we talked about jealousy. Your whole body is full of darkness, and then Jesus makes this exclamation, If then the light that is in you is darkness. How great is that darkness? So it's pretty serious when we reinforce again, if jealousy becomes my framework, and rather than allowing God to correct that, to reshape me, I keep going down that path of jealousy. It compounds until my whole inner world is, is, is not, is deformed by jealousy to where I literally become so shriveled that I'm incapable of showing kindness or grace, I have become kind of distorted. I think that's what Jesus is talking about, that we have the power through how we choose to respond to what comes at us, especially focusing on God, focusing on light, that if we resist that eventually we become totally consumed with darkness.

Bob: 33:07

There's a scripture that says that because they received, not the love of the truth. And when we're talking about truth, we're not talking about our own truth. We're talking about Jesus said, I am the way in the truth. We're talking about the truth is found in the life of Christ, how he lived and what He taught. That's what we're talking about here, that truth. But it says, because we're receiving not the love of the truth, God will send them strong delusion that they might believe a lie. So when we're not walking in harmony with God's ways, there's a shift that takes place in the perception of the mind that a lie now becomes true, right? That's scary, but that's reality of of the consequences of the choice for light or the choice from darkness, right?

Nathan: 33:52

So there's a framework we use here at Loveshaped Life to really be practical about filling our lives with light, and that's four principles. Practices. See, meditate, accept and rest. And I just want to spend just the last few minutes of our podcast talking about those four principles. We've written a book about these four principles, which is available on our website. But see, when we talk about, see, that's what we're talking about here is, and specifically seeing God's love, taking time in the story of Jesus is the first place that we do that. And I'm curious, Jan, how do what do you do in your day to day life? Like, what's your and maybe it doesn't have to be every day, but what's kind of your general practice for seeing for like, that first step, what do you do? I'm talking really practical. What do you do to see God,

Jan: 34:47

spend time with him. Yeah, but tell awesome. What does that look Sarah, spend time. I'm intentional about giving him the best part of my day, like the best part of everything. So when I first wake up. I try to, I make sure to pray, sing, journal, read the Bible. Everything is about him. It's like my food for the day, okay? And I could tell when I don't do that like my day is very different.

Nathan: 35:13

So you literally begin your day by making space to connect with God yes.

Jan: 35:19

Because for me that has been instrumental. And it's not, I wouldn't say it's a formula, because life has ups and downs, so maybe one day I'm more reading in the Bible. The other day I could be singing. It just depends. But it's, it's time with God, okay? But prior like that relationship, making that relationship number one in my

Nathan: 35:40

life, right? That's good and and what do you find helps you to like when it comes to how you perceive God? What would you say is kind of the most? Is there a most important piece in your practice that helps you? Because we talked about taking in light?

Jan: 35:56

No, I think everyone's different. You're at different stages. So I there's no one thing, God cannot be confined, or there's no formula like he, I think he, at least for me, he met me where I was, and it's just this growth, and it's the most beautiful thing I've ever experienced.

Nathan: 36:14

So it really comes down to making space and saying, God, I really want to see you.

Jan: 36:20

Yes, I think, yeah, if, for example, if you have a friend that you really care about like you don't, it's not just action. It's not just words. There's actions involved. You make, you know whatever your love language is or so on, but you you know there's some action involved. And when I decided to prioritize that action, my life changed for the better.

Nathan: 36:40

That's awesome. So Bob, I want to hear from you a little bit, because we've talked about this in the podcast, but I'd love for you to just share again. What do you do on the C part? What steps do you take that help you to see God transformatively?

Bob: 36:56

Yeah, before I answer that from my angle, I want to talk about Moses. You know, Moses comes before God one day, and he says, God, show me your your glory, which means your character. I mean, what a question, you know. And all the things you can ask God, he says, show me your character. So, God, you really like? Yeah, what do you really like? So God says, I'm going to show you. And he tells Moses where to stand and position. And he passes by and he and the Bible says He proclaimed himself the Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, long suffering and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for 1000s, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin. He proclaimed. He revealed who he was, you know, and so God wants to do the same with each and every one of us, to reveal who he is, because he's calling us to love him with all of our heart and all of our mind and all of our being, and to love each other the way he loves us. That's what he's calling us to. And the only way you're going to love somebody is to know them, right, right? So on a practical side, for me, it's I on a daily basis, I asked God to open my eyes that I could see more of Paul said prayed for in one of his prayers, one of the writers in New Testament, that people might see the height and depth and breadth of God's love, that we might be filled with all of his fullness. So that's my prayer at a daily basis, that God would open my eyes, because my eyes are distorted, right? And only God can open my eyes. So as I read the scriptures, I'm I'm just talking to God, starting to reflect on what do I see in this passage? I do know that one of the main goals of Jesus was to reveal the truth about the character of God, right? So I take his life and I reflect upon what I'm seeing, the story of Jesus. Story of Jesus, how he treated people, how he communed with his with with God. All of it reveals the character of God, all of it. And it's a beautiful picture, really. It is oftentimes a different picture than what religion is painted, right, right? Because religion of the time is tainted with men's views or what have you. And so as you look at the life of Jesus, and you look at the scriptures, and God has opened your eyes, he opens our eyes, and I feel that that's what he's done for me. I'm so grateful that God has spared my life long enough to catch glimpses into his very heart. I'm forever indebted to God for that, because where I came from and how was raised, and the picture of God man, you know, we were gonna burn. You know, you did something wrong. You're gonna burn. That was the, you know, I've shared before on the podcast. I could still bring you back to my city and show you the tree that the first day we skipped church I hid behind because they said fire was going to come down and burn me up, right? And then, as I began to look at the life of Jesus to see I saw that God wasn't like that at all. So I'm thankful to God. So how do I do on a daily basis spending time with God, like Jan said. Spending time in his presence. He's inviting us there, asking him to open my eyes, that I might see more of him as I read His word and contemplate. You know,

Nathan: 40:09

I'd say that's I don't think I really do anything different. I love the idea that it's not there's not like a formula. That's a great thing. And for me, it's making space. And I do some of my work in the car. I have an hour commute to the hospital where I do where I serve as a chaplain. But it's not the same for me as sitting at home and where the time that the space is devoted to isn't a transitional space. It's dedicated space. And for me, that's that's an important piece for me to experience God's presence is to I don't think it's bad that I spend time on the commute or that some or that that's often my connection space, but it is different space when I spend time to just be present, and I do both journal and read the text. So we do have a card deck that we don't have time to talk about it on this podcast, but that we were designing, well, that's designed and specifically intended to help you as a person, to encounter the story of Jesus and apply it, but it just think that's really important, just for us to say, Okay, this is how we do it, how we take time to see God and the meditate piece, we've kind of mixed that all in together, but to see to meditate, reflecting on what we're discovering, the story accepting it, where we're not just saying, Hey, that's a great idea, but we're saying, Okay, what does it look like for me to really believe that God loves me? What does it look like for me to choose to forgive my coworker, my my kid, whatever? What does it look like there for me to rest? And those are the pieces, which we explain elsewhere. But again, seeing God, meditating on the insights He gives us, accepting that, choosing to see, okay, I believe this, and then resting in the care of God, yeah.

Bob: 42:14

And those principles in the book are you, can they expound a little more? Right?

Nathan: 42:20

Four principles, yeah, yeah, right. What's your so we wrap up with see meta C, experience live. What's your big C in this conversation about the eye as a lamp, when we're talking about reframing reality, what's your big C?

Bob: 42:37

I go back to the version that says, if thine eye is single. Thy whole body should be full of light that when I'm choosing, because it's a choice to put God first in my life. His promise is that his light or his life will fill me. That's That's my seeing. That's the beauty of it, right? Because I can't, we can't change our hearts and our lives, God again, and this is what he's promising, right? That's what I'm seeing. The beautiful

Nathan: 43:03

promise, yeah, and I would say my see is that seeing God's love fills my whole life with light.

Jan: 43:12

I'd say, for me, it was, I think of the verse, Thy word as a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. And sort of choosing making, you know, I feel like in the world, we get all these different pictures of God, but making the conscious choice to seek God myself and learn about his character. And so that's that light about his true identity, and how that has changed me, and how I go through

Nathan: 43:45

life, so not let taking someone else's word for it,

Jan: 43:49

right? Yeah, experiencing it myself, right?

Nathan: 43:52

Yeah, that's good. So experience, anything special about experience that you'd want to mention from today,

Bob: 43:59

that's the greatest journey of your life, choosing to put God first. It's experiential.

Jan: 44:06

Yeah, there's treasures forever more and just not selling ourselves short,

Nathan: 44:14

yeah, that's great, yeah. And live, live. What does it look like to live in that space.

Bob: 44:21

I want to go back to the name of this episode,

Nathan: 44:26

reframing reality.

Bob: 44:27

Reframing reality. I'm grateful that I can live a life where my reality is framed by the beauty of God. Yeah, that's beautiful, not my own ideas and opinions, not the latest opinions of the news or this or that, but framed by God.

Nathan: 44:45

And I will say when I live in that rhythm of God's goodness, that it is a life of rest. For me, that's the power of living.

Jan: 44:58

For me, it's the purpose like a. Purposeful life. It's not just there's a lot of purpose awesome.

Nathan: 45:05

So that's the wrap for today. We want you to be sure to like and subscribe, and we know you've been thinking about a friend or two as you've listened to this episode, so go ahead and share it with them, until next time, lean into the Loveshaped Life.

Bob: 45:22

Ever wonder what it's like to truly experience God's love? At Loveshaped Life, we're here to guide you on that journey through our weekly emails, podcasts, blogs, coaching and more. We're helping people just like you discover the transformative power of Divine Love.

Nathan: 45:39

Join our community at loveshaped.life and be part of a movement that's changing lives. Loveshaped Life your partner in the journey of seeing, experiencing and living God's love.