Salt and Light: Jesus’s Call to Countercultural Living

Nathan: 00:00

Hey, I'm Nathan, and I want to welcome you back to the love shaped life podcast, where our dream is to see, experience and live in the center of God's radical love. I'm here with my friend Bob, and we are ready for season six, which is a follow up to season five, which, by the way, if you have not listened to season five, you should go back and listen or watch to season five. It is the lead up to season six, which we're beginning right now. Would love to invite you to like and subscribe, share with a friend. We think that we're going to continue providing inspiration for your life, and as we invite you to see Jesus and God in all their incredible beauty, and so we'd like you to follow along.

Bob: 00:46

Hey, it's exciting to be here with you again. Nathan, it's always a joy to come together, to be able to communicate the beauty of who God is. That's our passion, both of our passions, and it's such a need in the world today for people to see the true God and really what he's like, that He is love, and that you are loved by Him, right?

Nathan: 01:09

So today we are. We're coming in after so season five, we we spent time with these words of Jesus that are found in the first few lines of what we've called, what's commonly called the Sermon on the Mount, or what we're calling Jesus Kingdom manifesto. We even the other day, we were preparing for the episode, and we were just dialoguing. What should we How should we refer to this extended teaching that Jesus does, because in the recorded history of Jesus, there there were four writers, three of them who spent time with Jesus. Matthew Mark and John all spent time with Jesus. They knew him personally. But then there is a fourth writer, Luke, who did not know Jesus well. He wasn't in the original disciples. So he may have encountered Jesus, but he he anyway, he comes along and writes a fourth account of Jesus, a fourth biography. So these biographies in, in in Christian circles. Theological circles are called the Four Gospels, and so Matthew is traditionally the first of those in Scripture, and that's the one that records this sermon. There's actually or this teaching, whatever we're going to call it, there's another long form, and that's in chapter 23 of Matthew. There's chapter 2425 so there's a few of these sections, as well as other gospels that have like these extended teachings of Jesus. And this one provides us a window into his his thinking about what it means to be part of His kingdom. And it comes pretty early in his public ministry, which maybe we should talk about for a second, because he's like in his 30s, right?

Bob: 03:11

Yeah, in his young 30s, right?

Nathan: 03:13

He grew up, was a kid at home, worked with his dad, as far as we know. And then in his 30s, he was baptized and stepped out into the public stage. So there's this, this quiet, well, probably village life of Jesus, where most of his life is spent in the background, at home, and, you know, maybe some travel. But he's not like this well known figure until after His baptism, a little bit leading up to his baptism, but pretty much at His baptism, the recognition begins. And it's just this very short, very public ministry is essentially the core of the these biographies of Jesus the Gospels. Is so commonly

Bob: 03:56

called, yeah, and like you had mentioned, this was his first time out, as far as publicly speaking to a large crowd. And there was an anticipation there. You know, people were expecting the Messiah to come, and in their mind, the Messiah was somebody who was going to deliver them from the Roman Empire that they would no longer be slaves, because at that time, remember, Israel were taken captive by the Roman Empire. So they were slaves to them. So there was this anticipation in that very first manifesto, as you would call it, right, Jesus coming, that the crowd was coming, anticipating that he was going to announce how he was going to conquer the Roman Empire. And there was many people there, because it was a lot of people, lot of people there that were full of hatred. There was a lot of, you know, expectation. They just couldn't wait to see the Roman Empire destroyed and that they would become the ruler. So in that crowd, it's interesting to look at that crowd, who was there because they're worthy. Uh, largely the crowd is made up of the Jews from, you know, they were from the nation of Israel. It was largely made up of that crowd. But there was also some Roman soldiers, right, that were present in that crowd. And then there was the religious leaders, which was known as the Pharisees and Sadducees. They were there. They were present. But there was also people from surrounding, towns that were not necessarily of a Jewish descent, that came out just because they heard that he was about to make a big announcement right then.

Nathan: 05:32

That was part of the challenge of this. When Jesus launches his ministry, he is launching into just kind of a political fervor that was kind of boiling under the surface of the Jewish people because they were longing for a deliverer figure, a messiah figure, or Mashiach figure in their in their theology, they found it present the Hebrew prophets had spoken of this and the experience of being a people in an occupied land, when these are The people whose story is one that that begins with deliverance from the pharaoh of Egypt, and includes living as an independent people. And then those these writings of the Hebrew prophets, predicting a new golden era, in a sense. And so taking all that in, there's plenty of folks in the crowd who sees this new, young, rising teacher, itinerant teacher, who can, as they've come to know, can heal people. His ministry of healing isn't it's it hasn't reached its full like peak, but he has been healing people. He's been doing astonishing things, and the rumors and expectations are inevitable. Even around his baptism, there's rumors that this is a special guy, the John the Baptist figure, who dressed like an ancient Hebrew prophet, really his introduction of Jesus. The Baptism moment also got the crowds like this was a really, if you think of it, a very pregnant moment of anticipation. The people were looking for a revolutionary figure, and they saw in Jesus, somebody who just might be that figure, who was the realization, or potentially the realization, of their hopes and dreams. Yeah.

Bob: 07:36

And if you can imagine, there was excitement in the air, right? I mean, that was the anticipation, right? These people, especially the Jewish descent. Remember, they were taken captive by the Roman Empire. So here they were, a lot of them were owned their own land, and they were farmers, and now they were working, actually, for the Roman Empire. It was taken away from their freedom was taken away from them. So there was a lot of oppression and and as a result of that, can you imagine the hope that this man who was coming to speak that day was going to be their deliverer? Right? I mean, it was, it was high, and so they were excited. So Jesus comes along. You remember from our last episode, he comes along. The very first thing in his mouth was blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven, right? So he talks about a kingdom because that's what they're anticipating. A kingdom. Somebody, his initial response is, blessed. Are those poor in spirit? Blessed are those who see their need, right? Right? Because theirs is the kingdom. So all of a sudden, their anticipation of this earthly kingdom that was going to destroy the Roman Empire is just kind of blown right? He starts off, just blowing it away, and he flips it into a spiritual kingdom,

Nathan: 08:52

you know, as as as we're thinking about this, and as I was listening, I reminded, kind of of today, the stuff going on in today's culture, the I was just in, I work in the healthcare setting, the healthcare industry, as a chaplain in spiritual care, and was just reminded in a conversation the other day about the disparity that's present in society, people making more and more, people making less and less, people kind of being squeezed out of the middle where in the area we're from, it's hard for someone to make just an everyday salary and have be able to afford their own home. So even today, culturally, we're in a place where there's also kind of unrest. Certain people not receiving their needs aren't being met, the society is pushing them to the sidelines. So we're we. Are in this place, in some ways, in society, where people are struggling to be valued and to afford to live, to find a house, to those things that make life worth living if you don't have those things and and they're not easy to to get, or reasonably achievable. That starts formulating or creating an unrest and looking for something to come along that can fix this. Well,

Bob: 10:29

that's why the constant, you know, web and flow of political leaders, right? Because everybody's looking for a messiah who's going to give them what they're desiring. Maybe they're a better economy. You know, there's always these hopes and dreams and that oftentimes don't even come to fruition, right? So here they are. There they have these hopes and dreams. And Jesus starts off talking about his kingdom, but not in the aspect of an earthly kingdom. And remember, from our last episode, then he goes on, he just mentions, really characteristics of citizenship of the kingdom, right? You know, Blessed are the the meek. You know, Blessed are the merciful. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness. Blessed are the pure in heart. Blessed are the peacemakers, right? I mean, he just, can you imagine, he just let the air out of the balloon, you know, in the crowd, yeah, right, because he wasn't saying, Blessed are those who are strong and mighty and going to be able to swing a sword better than somebody else, you know? And he said, No, Blessed are the meek, Blessed are the merciful. Blessed are the pure in heart. Blessed are the peacemakers. So this whole he just flips this kingdom. It's a powerful moment. It's very powerful. And so that's where we were in the last episode, and now today we're picking up from where we left

Nathan: 11:44

off. Yes, right in and so if you're following again, these biographies of the life of Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They're named after their authors. And Matthew writes the first one, and the each book is divided into chapters, if you're not familiar with scripture. So we're in chapter five. This teaching moment of Jesus is recorded in chapters five, six and seven. So this season, we're finishing up chapter five. Last season, season five, we started chapter five. If you heard last season, you'll recognize some of the dialog, because we kind of recap a little bit of that conversation about who's present, what's the political climate. But if you haven't listened to season five, you need to, because it sets the stage for this, this teaching that's we're going to get into today sets the stage for in a very powerful way. So there's three parts to chapter five, three kind of general sections, the first one we covered in season five, which are commonly referred to as the Beatitudes. There's there, depending on how you divide it, seven to nine words of blessing that Jesus gives. And very powerful that season five. Watch that. The next section sets the stage for the third section in chapter five. And so today we're talking about that, that middle section that sets the stage for the last section. And that section, if you're looking chapter wise, is Matthew 513, through 20. So a handful of scriptures, of verses, as we call them, in in reference to the Bible. That is this transition piece, setting the stage for the next piece of Jesus teaching, yeah,

Bob: 13:34

I, before we read that, I just want to mention again about he's he's talking about a kingdom, right? They're expecting a kingdom only. They're expecting an earthly kingdom. And now he's talking about the spiritual kingdom, right? Who he's really the king, right? Right? And oftentimes, in the gospels, you'll see, as Jesus traveled around, he would say things like, the kingdom of heaven is like, you know, he's trying to find something to compare the kingdom of heaven like and he never compared it to an earthly

Nathan: 14:03

kingdom. And I think that's like the kingdom of heaven. We as pastors, because that's our background, kind of take for granted that language is uncommon, language outside of kind of a theological setting or a church setting. It's also true that even in Jesus time, as he's introducing himself, the people introducing these these ideas, to the to the crowds, that that language is a little foreign too. What is a kingdom? They knew that Rome had a kingdom. They knew other kingdoms in the area. They heard about the wars. Been involved in the wars, soldiers were in the crowd, so he understood kingdom. But then Jesus adds this little light, if I remember my English right, adverbial phrase of heaven. So it's a kingdom, but it's a different kind of Kingdom. It's a heavenly kingdom. So, you know, as you're listening, part of what we're doing is, is you. Trying to communicate in language. You can wrap our minds around these ideas of Jesus, and one of those is, is he's also doing this work of what does it mean to be of heaven? We get the kingdom side. What's the of Heaven part? Well,

Bob: 15:13

actually, the kingdom but back to the kingdom side. Sorry, I'm stuck on the kingdom side. That's good. Remember, he couldn't find an earthly kingdom, because earthly kingdoms are built on force, right? Roman Empire was ruling the people by force, but the kingdom of heaven now the most powerful being in all the universe that could actually rule by force. Just boy, the blink of an eye, he could make us, all of us, bow down. He's not using force to establish His kingdom, right?

Nathan: 15:41

And it's that's the adverb that that modifying phrase is so critical, the of heaven. But that changes everything. The Kingdom word means something entirely different once you add the of Heaven part very

Bob: 15:55

good, very good. So this kingdom that he's seeking to establish, as we saw last time, is talking about mercy and compassion. These are characteristics of God, right? So these are the characteristics that he's saying would be seen in the citizens of the kingdom, right, right? So, if you can imagine the most powerful being in all the universe who can exercise power and might and the snap of a finger doesn't instead, He's establishing His kingdom on freedom and the power of love.

Nathan: 16:39

You know, you and our church guys like, that's our background is church. And I'm

Bob: 16:45

not sure if I'm a church guy, but

Nathan: 16:48

for the sake of our audience, we come from that background. And what strikes me is the tragedy that you and I know have seen on the inside. We see it in media. We hear about it in church circles, is that too often the church, rather than following the lead of Jesus, has itself tried to leverage theology. That's scripture, teachings, teachings, ideas about God, etc, to establish itself in society, to control its adherence, to try to dominate the political landscape. Jesus is not introducing us to that either. In fact, Jesus is is coming head on to dismantle that system and say this is garbage and it does not represent who, I am

Bob: 17:45

sure any religious body who attempts to go after a political government in order to establish itself just demonstrates that they have no power, right? Yes, one choice, yes, because Jesus's kingdom was built on love, and that love is the power to transform human hearts, and that's what he's trying to get across in this first manifesto. Right as He's establishing his kingdom and setting up his kingdom, that these attributes that he's saying the citizens would have are the power. That's why what we're about to read right now, in fact, maybe we

18:18

should, probably should, or we'll finish the podcast before getting the text. Yeah, would you like to read it? I will read it.

Nathan: 18:25

You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on its stand and it gives light to everyone in the house in the same way, let your light shine before others that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. I'm going to stop there. That's not the full section, but I think I'm going to stop there. We want to kind of break that down. That's a lot of text. We think you need to hear it in one piece, but then we're going to kind of break it down and explore some of these pieces.

Bob: 19:12

Yeah, and remember, he's coming out of talking about the attributes of the kingdom, like we talked about, right, right? Blessed are the meek, Blessed are the merciful. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness. Blessed are they pure in heart? And now he tells them, he's looking at this crowd right, who's waiting for him to set up this earthly kingdom, to conquered Roman Empire. And he says, You are the salt of the earth.

Nathan: 19:36

And we really spent some time as we're talking about this episode on that idea you because he's looking at people who, you know, the poor individuals on the mountainside, who were slaves, right? Slaves, others who weren't necessarily slaves, but who. Uh, every day was a struggle to make sure they had enough food to make it to the next day. We call that hand to mouth, like where they were. Every day was a struggle just to keep existing. They had no place in a kingdom. Nobody want sorry, go ahead. No, just because, hey, nobody wanted them in Messiah's army, as as it would be conceived of in a political they were not heroes. They were not, you know, all the things you might need they they were just the outcasts on the side of the road of society. Well,

Bob: 20:39

many of them felt worthless because the religious concept at the time was they were pretty much implied, and they were worthless. So here they are, these people, and Jesus speaks to them, You, you, you, you are the salt of the earth. Same thing he's speaking to human beings today. You are the salt of the earth, right? You are a value in the eyes of God. You are a change maker salt. Remember, salt has flavor and salt is also preserves, right, right? So you are the one that will enable other human beings to taste what the kingdom of heaven is like, just by how you live. Because if you're manifesting mercy in our society, if you're manifesting, you know, meekness in our society, instead of strife and turmoil and and you're seeking to be a peacemaker, that's huge. It's huge, huge. Who does that?

Nathan: 21:36

And then that's what we want you to hear what we as we you know, it's one of the things we've talked about, is this concept that kind of floats around in society, that the church is this place where theological ideas and doctrinal rules matter, like that's what makes a church a church, that's what makes a person a follower of Jesus, when what Jesus is saying is actually the thing that makes you a follower of Jesus is hungering to be a person who loves well, is showing mercy like Jesus. Instead of naming a list of of things you know or religious practices you engage in, he names who a person is, what a person is like. His emphasis is on how we treat the people around us.

Bob: 22:32

Yeah. Later on, Jesus made it real simple, and that's what I like about Jesus' teaching real simple. He said the new commandment I give unto you that you love one another as I have loved you. And by this show, all men know. All men know that you are my disciples, right? That wasn't a particular label from any type of organization that you belong to, right? It was how you lived. That's who you were, and it was the type of love that he had, that he wants to put in us, and that's the identifying mark, that's that we're citizens of this kingdom. And that's the salt that he wants us to to flavor the earth with. That's the salt that they might see God in us, right? At the same Jesus, that that they that they were seeing would be seen in them, right? It's a beautiful thing. It's incredible. Said you you broken individuals, you people are broken, and you're down and out, and you're trodden under foot by by oppression. You are citizens of the kingdom, if you allow me to live in you, right? That was that that's just

Nathan: 23:41

mind blowing. It is mind blowing. And the idea that it's not that followers of Jesus aren't the people who show up in church, but the people who show up in radically loving their neighbors, their families, their community, that's what according to Jesus, those are the people who are really, truly, part of the kingdom. Well,

Bob: 24:02

those are the ones he's identifying as his, the citizens of the kingdom, right? You know, again, it's not labels. It's about who we are, yes, in God's eyes, about who we're becoming, yes, right? And what he's doing in our lives, in our heart. So back to salt, right? Salt was used for flavoring. Salt was used for preserving, right? Yes. So God is calling upon every individual who's choosing to be part of this kingdom, to be that agent of change in our world. Yeah. So, so love will conquer hatred. If you want to be an agent of love, you can be used in the hands of God to conquer the hatred that's in the world.

Nathan: 24:45

Right? You know, when I am connecting with people, I pick up on this longing in the hearts of. My friends, my co workers, regardless of religious background, no religious background. Burned out on church, no familiarity with Jesus, etc, like all over the map, one common thread that keeps showing up is is a desire to be a person who contributes goodness to the world. And I think that's something so important to highlight, like, that's what Jesus is after. He's not after the show and the performance. So much of that is what turns people off. They experience religion is this hollow kind of or can experience not that, like every religious experience is this way, but so much of religious experience is kind of a hollow, a hollow performance. And Jesus is very clearly pushing back against that picture of religion. He's also introducing something else that's that is substantively different.

Bob: 26:07

You know, we have these friends that visit us every year. They come back every year. They but they don't live in our house. When they come to visit. They actually live in the mailbox post outside. So there's these two birds. They're blue birds. They come back every year, and it's like a GPS signal that's God's put in their heart that they know where the place is. They just show up every spring. And I want to fix the mailbox, but I'm not fixing it, because I feel like I'm taking their home away, right? So God has put it in their heart to know where to come back every year to make a nest, to produce more of their babies, right there in our mailbox post, well, there's a GPS signal inside of all of our hearts that's longing for something better, and only God can fill that spot. So what you're talking about, about your friends that are longing to be a better person, that's what God's put in our heart, and only he can fill that spot. This is what it means. So to find purpose and meaning in life is to be part of the kingdom, right? And experience that it's the little things in life that are helping be the salt that you are the salt you are the light by demonstrating a kind act, by showing compassion to another human being, by demonstrating mercy, by taking the low road of being meek instead of trying to be above somebody else, trying to be a peacemaker in our world, all these little things that we can do in our workplaces, In our neighborhood, in our home especially is is building the kingdom of heaven, yeah, and being part of a salt that will preserve, preserve us, try to help preserve a society that's on a pathway of destruction, right? Yeah. So

Nathan: 27:56

a couple of things that I that well, one is, I found this incredible. It's a little article from University of Hawaii at Manoa, and it's from science curriculum. Salt plays a crucial role in maintaining human health. It is the main source of sodium and chloride ions in the human diet. Sodium is essential for nerve and muscle function and is involved in the regulation of fluids in the body. Wow. There's another article, Time magazine. This is another online called a brief it was on the time.com.com website, A Brief History of salt. Interestingly, salt was so valuable that the this post mentions that of all the roads that led to Rome, one of the busiest was the via Solaria, the salt route over which Roman soldiers marched and merchants drove ox carts full of the precious crystals up the Tiber from the salt pans at Ostia. Salt, in some cases, was formed into the shape of a coin. There's another time where salt was trading one to one for gold. Wow. So Jesus was not accidentally. It wasn't like he just picked some random thing out of his head when he said, You're the salt, he was tying the impact of Kingdom people who were living according to the Jesus way as essential to setting The bar to preservation of a civilized society Jesus followers were not meant to be another sect of people who had a collection of religious ideas and strange practices. They were meant to be people whose lives, not their time at church, not the things they said, as much as the way they lived was to. To be an agent of preserving civilness and encouraging civilness. So this salt idea, and what's interesting to Bonhoeffer makes this comment go ahead and yeah, if you have something, I'm fine.

Bob: 30:17

Well, I just want to you mentioned about the value of salt right to us and to our bodies, again, the comparing that we are the salt of the earth, spiritually for the world, that God has called us to impact and use our influence for him, to help people find Him and see Him, and to find life, you know? So there's this flavor that we're adding to the world, right? Preservation that we're adding to the world just through simply demonstrating attributes of God, right, in our daily life? Yeah, yeah, that's right. No necessarily Big Show and pomp and show, just simply living that can be life changing impact on people's lives. So you're gonna read something from, yeah,

Nathan: 31:04

from Bonhoeffer, and just a quick word on Bonhoeffer, which is maybe not a name you're familiar with. This, this theologian rose to kind of significance in us, in his circle, during the rise of Hitler. So Hitler becomes chancellor in 1933 Bonhoeffer is a pastor and theologian at that time, and he is deeply moved by the teachings of Jesus. And for him, the call of following Jesus is a call to a life of radical love. He was unwilling to simply adapt his theology to the Empire. He was unwilling to conform simply to be accepted. He was committed to following Jesus at whatever cost that might be. And for Bonhoeffer ultimately led to his death. So Bonhoeffer, I think, has an authority to speak to following Jesus that few have, at least from his era, because his life was an active decision to follow, at whatever cost, he didn't compromise his his faith, his convictions, his beliefs about who Jesus was to be accepted he and so when he speaks, I think there's some power there, because his life demonstrated this radical commitment. This is from his book, cost of discipleship, and he makes this note. The word speaks. This is the word salt. The word speaks of their whole existence insofar as it is grounded anew. In the call of Christ, this idea that their existence, you are the salt. He didn't say, what you teach is the salt. He didn't say, I'm giving you the salt. He said, You you as a human being present in the world, you are the salt. So it's not the things we say. It's not the things followers of Jesus say. It's not the things they do as external things. It's the salt as the love of God is embodied in the life of the believer, as we live out life filled with the love of God. That is the act of being salt. Yeah, it's

Bob: 33:26

it's more of being than doing exactly who you are, right? Is there more to that quote?

33:32

So, so

Bob: 33:33

you remember Jesus makes that statement here, as he was talking about you are the salt of the earth. But if the salt has lost its saltiness. How can it be salty again? Right? So, remember, the salt that they had was not what we have on our table today, not the white stuff, not the white stuff. So, you know, we we've learned to refine it and make it what it is today. So there was other minerals attached to it, right? So, but if, if the saltiness wasn't in there.

Nathan: 34:02

That's the sodium chloride, that white stuff, yeah, if that gets leached out,

Bob: 34:05

right? If it gets leeched out, then it was good for nothing, right, right? So what he was saying was, you know, if, if my love is not in you, right, if it's not, if I'm not in you, then your salt is good for nothing. All your religious forms and ceremonies and whatever you do is good for nothing, right? Because the bottom line, the salt, the salt ingredient, the saltiness, is my love.

Nathan: 34:32

That's powerful. And you know what, what it speaks to me of is, as I watch what's happening in the religious world. Sometimes I'm reluctant to call myself a Christian, not because I have any reservations about following Jesus. I'm fully on board with that, but the Christianity that I see today is. Is essentially, at least the Christianity that shows up in the news most of the time is a Christianity who's that is a movement of power and dominance, not a movement defined by these Kingdom Principles of Jesus, but an organization of people who have certain ideas and want to use their their power, their leverage, their weight, to drive society in the direction they want to go. It's power and control. This is not what Jesus is talking about. And when he talks about the salt losing its savor, when people who claim to be following Jesus, when love is is just kind of disappears from their lives, they have lost their point for existence as people who follow Jesus.

Bob: 35:45

Yeah, Jesus said, is good for nothing. I mean, he didn't hold back, right? He didn't know he said he didn't hold back. Listen first, Corinthians, chapter 13, just one through three. Listen to what the scripture says. If I speak with human eloquence, eloquence and angelic ecstasy, but don't love, I'm nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate. And then he goes on. He said, If I speak God's Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, as if, as if I have faith, it says to a mountain, jump, and it jumps. But I don't have love, I'm nothing. And he says that if I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don't have love, I've gotten nowhere. So no matter what I say, what I believe, what I do, I'm bankrupt without love. There's the bottom line, that's the salt and

Nathan: 36:41

salt, right? Yeah, names, everything we think of in church, working miracles, preaching, elegant, look else, speaking eloquently from scripture, making compelling theological arguments, giving like, those are like, the core things that we think makes up church. This, this writer, to the early Christians, says, if that's what you think religion is, and there's no love in your life, all of that is a total waste of time. Sacrificial giving is a waste of time. If love is not the defining reality in my life,

Bob: 37:16

it's the salt, the one that's to God wants to use to change the world, right? So he went on to describe what that love was, right? Yeah, but, but, sorry,

Nathan: 37:27

there's one piece that we can interject in the middle of that, and I think it's worth throwing it in here, because I want to hear this piece. But this is another writer, John, writing to a group of believers, early church believers, early followers of Jesus. We know we've passed from death to life because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. It's like in John's mind, life and death was the difference between loving and not loving. And

Bob: 38:02

I want to be clear this, this, this love that he's talking about, that John is talking about, is the Agape love that we've referred to in previous episodes. It's the type of love that is in the heart of God, right? Yes. So because the world, we use the word very loosely, love, oh, I love you, I love you, I love you. But the type of love that he's talking about is this self giving, self sacrificing love, yes, so just to be clear on that, that's the love, that's the one again, right? That's found in the heart of God,

Nathan: 38:34

right? And that's the kingdom Jesus is creating, is a kingdom of human beings who whose lives are defined by radical love

Bob: 38:45

and lives that he will infuse that love into? Yeah. He's not asking us to try to muster it up, right, to produce it. He's saying, No, I'm go. I am love. I'm the creator, and I will put it in you, right, right? I'll put it in you. That's

Nathan: 39:00

why he says you are people that follow Jesus, whose lives really lean into his love. Simply are the salt of the earth by association with him, they become infused with His love and live it out. That's why, here at Love shaped life, we talk about the four principles, see, meditate, accept and rest as living in the center of God's love, because the way we become lovers in the Jesus model is to lean into him, his love transforms us, and that seeps out into everything we do, and we become the salt, right? We exactly our world, right? So, so

Bob: 39:41

what do you want to continue? Yes, this

Nathan: 39:43

is First Corinthians, which is written, right? Paul, an early church leader, writing to a church in the city of Corinth. And

Bob: 39:51

this is right after what I just read, right? Yes, if you don't have love, you have nothing. He said, Love never gives up. Love cares more for other. Than for self. Love doesn't want what it doesn't have. Love does not strut, doesn't have a swelled head, doesn't force itself on others. Isn't always me first, doesn't fly off the handle, doesn't keep score of the sins of others, doesn't revel when others grovel, takes pleasure and the flowing flowering of truth, puts up with anything. Trust God always, always looks for the best, never looks back, but keeps going to the end. So he's really defining the type of love that becomes the salt of the earth. And the good news is, this is what Jesus came for. So when he's speaking to the people about the kingdom, again, he's, he's, he wants to put that in their hearts, just like he wants to put it in our hearts today, in any human being's heart that is willing to receive it. This is what Jesus came and lived for. This is the human being that he created, a new human being that's capable of loving from this capacity. This is what he died for, and this is how he was resurrected, and he sits at the right hand of the Father, and he's willing to give us that same type of love today,

Nathan: 41:09

to make human beings who love like he loves. That's the good

Bob: 41:14

news. That is the good news that we, by His power, are capable of loving like this, hmm. So there was those people listening to Jesus that day, thinking that he they were, he was going to talk about establishing an earthly kingdom, and he flips it and says, This kingdom's not like the kingdom you think, not what you expect, not built on force, right? It's built on love that flows from my heart, and that love is more powerful than any of those carnal weapons, as we would call them, that's right, right? And that love is capable of transforming hearts, even your enemy. That's right, that's right, even the people you're hating, can have transformed lives. And that's what he was after. That's it. He's same. He's still after the same thing today. Yeah, that's what he's calling upon people who are willing to be recipients of that love, to be the salt of the earth.

Nathan: 42:12

Yep. And that is all for today's episode, because we're at the perfect spot to wrap it up. This is going to end up being a two parts on this. This transition piece, Jesus, transitioning, setting the stage for where he's going to go and where he's going is, is five, five aspects of ancient Hebrew law that Jesus is kind of a recapturing, recasting. We're going to get there. We got to wrap up this episode. We're going to come back and finish the transition segment, and then with podcast three, or episode three in this season, we'll get into some of those five pieces that Jesus talks about in this radical way of living and loving. So first, like and subscribe, share with a friend, and until next time, lean into the love shaped life you.