When Jesus Disappoints Your Expectations

Otavio: 00:00

And they're like, this, this seems like this might be the guy at the time, right? And this, this has to be the time, like we can't deal with this anymore. And Jesus is, I'm sure they're sitting there and they're just waiting, and they're expecting this, what words are about to come out of his mouth, and he literally hits the bridge.

Nathan: 00:26

Welcome to the Loveshaped Life Podcast. I'm Nathan Stearman in the studio today with Bob and Octavio. This is the seventh season of our podcast. We're working through the incredible teachings of Jesus that he gave to an audience, a large audience on a hillside. And today we want to introduce a new podcast participant, Octavio McKenzie. Maybe tell us a little bit about yourself, and I gotta slow down, take a deep breath, so maybe hand it off to you at a little slower pace. Tell us about yourself

Otavio: 00:58

absolutely well. First of all, I'm excited to be here, excited to be part of the love shape life. Thank you both for for having me. So yeah, just a little bit about myself. First and foremost, the thing that's the biggest highlight for me is I am a father. I'm a husband. Um, absolutely, just tremendously blessed for my wife, my daughter. Um, also, I am currently a co-founder and CEO of a digital health startup called Architek Health, where we basically power digital health telehealth brands that, as we, you know, we've journeyed from 2020 and beyond. Telehealth and digital health in general, is a big thing, and so we have a startup that powers those types of companies. And so we're excited about that little bit about me before I served as a pastor for 15 years. And still, I would say that is a huge part of who I am to this day. And still my life's biggest calling and passion.

Nathan: 02:03

So, yeah, what again? Little, little vignette here. What does it mean for you to have a pastor's heart, but you're not preaching every week, you're not you know, for anybody familiar with church life, like you're not doing traditional church life. What does that mean for you? What is, how does that impact your day? Like, what does that look

Otavio: 02:27

like? What is this? It still comes into every part of my life. So what tell like, what does that look like? How does it show up? So it's different. It's interesting. Because, of course, you know, as a pastor, you know, leading over a church and everything like that. And currently, as a CEO leading over a company, there are a lot of similarities. So leadership cross, leadership crossover totally, but I find with myself, I find that I lead in my company with still a pastoral heart. So I'm just,

Nathan: 02:56

what is the what is a pastoral heart? That's the kind of thing. I'm curious, how do you see that as different from, say, a CEO who went to who has an MBA or PhD in business. How does that heart change? What

Otavio: 03:07

you do? Some might have it, but I'm always thinking about the people. I'm always thinking about the impact of people. I'm thinking about the impact of my team, the team that I work directly with. I'm thinking about the impact of my clients, and so I'm always just my mind is geared towards what's the best thing for my team. So we're talking about well being, yeah, the well being what's the best thing for this client, you know? So sure, the objective is to have the best business possible, but I want to have the best business possible with a healthy and thriving team that feels like beyond the fact that I'm their CEO and they have a certain responsibility in the company, they know they can come and speak to me. They know they're cared about beyond just the role that they have in the company. So client, the same thing.

Nathan: 03:53

Yeah, that's awesome. So for our for our listeners, some of them are not like, familiar with what a pastor does, but that that caring perspective, that caring kind of forward, kind of central focus is, is what we would call in the theological church circles of pastor's heart. And certainly there are CEOs across the business world who have that. But this is something that's kind of native for you, yes because of your experience in congregational and volunteer organizational work, as far as churches are that kind of volunteer congregation combo, exactly, and you're bringing that people first yes into your leadership,

Otavio: 04:36

Absolutely, absolutely, and it impacts them. People value they they can tell when you care, right? And they value that. And, you know, they're willing to give a little bit more. They're willing. It's not even the reason I do. It is not for that, but it's just the inevitable result of what happens. People matter most. You know, that's how it was for me when I was pastoring. You know. Always concerned about the well being of the people, and that's how it is as I'm running a company today.

Bob: 05:06

Thank you for sharing your story and for being with us. But really, when you think about it, what you're sharing, it's really who God is. Yes, absolutely. You're just seeking to imitate the God who you see, absolutely God cares for every human being, absolutely, wherever they're from, wherever they're and that's really a key to your successful company,

Otavio: 05:27

absolutely? Yeah, I think it is. It's the key, you know, it's, it's the feedback we constantly get that is different, that the people value, both employees and clients.

Bob: 05:40

So Octavio tell us a little bit about further back.

Nathan: 05:44

Yeah, hang on. Hang on. I got one little thing so we have, it's going to be a little corny, but we have a name we call that way of living in the world. We call it a love-shaped life. Well, that's not corny. And I mean, it's our name, but we chose it because really, truly, our name is like our philosophy of engaging in the

Bob: 06:02

world. It's really again, how God's Kingdom is, right, right? Yeah. We're just building off of how we see God, the character of God and His Kingdom, yeah, because that's how he sees us, right? He wants us to see each

Nathan: 06:16

other absolutely All right. Back to your question, yeah.

Bob: 06:19

So backing up, you know, where you came from, where you're born, your journey to get

Nathan: 06:23

to where you are? Yeah, we did talk about doing a whole episode, right? Couple of episodes for our story sessions? Yeah, yes, yeah.

Otavio: 06:30

So definitely can jump into greater detail of my story. But the biggest thing, I would say is so I actually grew up in Florida, was born in Jamaica left that at a very young age, what is interesting, and what I would say was really kind of the thing that shaped my life and my journey was in childhood. It became clear to me at a very young age, my parents simply really did not get along. And also at a young age, I think I was eight or nine years old, they finally made, I think, what was the responsible decision to separate and to get a divorce? What individuals don't realize about children and what they experience in things like that, in a in an environment like that, is that it has a profound impact on the kids. And I found myself for the longest time thinking part I had to be a part of the reason why this was the case, like, what was was I? Was it my fault that my parents were apart? My parents didn't see eye to eye. They didn't get along, and so as a result of that, it just created this situation for me where I struggled with feeling loved growing up that was just a constant struggle. So after age eight nine, Dad's not present, Mom tried her best. I give her her credit there, but I struggled. It was just constant struggle. Fast forward a little bit to my late teen years, early 20s, and I'm just totally living a wild life. Just know about God, but no interest whatsoever in God. Find myself just in a tough situation, a lot of trouble, and realized quickly, like, you know, what the way my life is going. This just isn't this. This just isn't for me, this there has to be better to life. And it was there that Jesus really got my attention, and it was there that I started to realize what love really was as I started to learn more about Jesus. And that is what pulled me in. That's what pulled me in, ultimately to being a pastor and to ultimately just setting the tone and the trajectory of my life from that point forward. And what I would say, in conjunction with what we're doing here, set me on a path of a love-shaped life.

Bob: 08:56

Beautiful. Yeah, beautiful. You say that Jesus got your attention. You just share with us briefly what that looked like for you.

Otavio: 09:03

So one of the first things I did as I just is, as it just settled in my mind, like, okay, there has to be better, is I went to the Bible and went to Jesus, went to the Gospels, and immediately the person of Jesus, just got my attention, and it was attractive, and it was inviting and it was appealing. And I looked at the way Jesus interacted, the way he did life, and the way he cared for people, the way he loved people. And just going through scripture, both in the Gospels and other parts of Scripture, starting to see that love, it just pulled me and so that that's what it was,

Bob: 09:42

that's beautiful. Yeah, you know, I think that what Jesus said, If I be lifted up, I'll draw all men unto me. So as you were looking at the life of Christ, I like the way you put that. You looked at how he interacted with people and saw and how he did life, yes, and that drew you. It did if there's a power in seeing the beauty. Beauty of that life, that absolutely drawing power that draws us in. So yes, so praise God. So you went through that, and you ended up pastoring and and now, now you started your own company, yes, and you're here with us today, and we're grateful that you're part of us. And yeah, actually part of our team. And yes, yeah, we're welcoming a new team. Absolutely on this podcast, absolutely so welcome. I'm humbled

10:25

and excited to be a part of the

Nathan: 10:27

team. Yeah, it's good to have you so Octavia and I met when you were in the parish serving a church congregation, a couple of them, maybe yes, two couple of, three of them at a time in Kansas, the great state of Kansas, the great flat state of Kansas, beautiful state, yes, and I was assigned to be your mentor, signed, yep. And that became a friendship. And absolutely been off and on, in touch over the years and then connected more, which that'll probably be in another podcast, but it's interesting,

Bob: 10:56

the way God has led us all. It is crazy. You mentioned it earlier, because when you graduated from school, you came and did, hung out with you, yeah, hung out with me, did like an internship, and then we stayed in touch through the years. And then you connected with Octavio, right? Yeah, I guess I'm the senior and you're the junior. He's even beyond the baby,

11:21

I guess, dating the rest of

Nathan: 11:27

us officially here at Loveshaped Life, you are a consultant on our team, and then you're also specifically focused on community development, yes, and I don't know if you can tell us you Got you and Bob, have done some more conversation about that. What would you say in a snapshot where you would what are the glimmers of what that looks like? So

Otavio: 11:51

first and foremost, you know, this is really the passion of mine. It is important to me to be able to help. You know, in any environment I'm in that's in my company, that was when I'm pastoring, and that's your love-shaped life, creating a safe space, just creating a safe space where people can interact, where people can learn about God, where people can experience God. Now, in the professional setting, I might not be able to as explicitly put it out there that, hey, I want you to see the face of God, but it can be shown. And as a part of love shape life, it's clear that that's what we're going after. So yeah, we've had some conversations. We've been working on some things. We actually have, I believe, some exciting things coming up, moving into 2025 that we'll be sharing here, but we really want to create a place that is community focused, where there's great engagement and people can feel safe in their journey to experiencing more and more of the love of God with other people. Absolutely, yeah,

Bob: 12:56

yes. And the beautiful part about this again, is it's going to be created in a digital space, absolutely right? So it's has the potential of the whole world and people from around the world, because let's face it, COVID taught us all that that to being connected digitally is not a foreign thing for us anymore, right? More comfortable with it. So I love shave life. In the very near future, we're going to be launching a digital community, which, again, if you're listening to us today, you would want to go to love shape, dot life, and you can go ahead and subscribe and and connect with us. So when we launch that community, we you can be part of it

Nathan: 13:35

absolutely. And it's even in its infant stages right now. We're just there's some more development. So that's where Octavio, your focus is going to be helpful. Absolutely. You know, one of the things, because Loveshaped Life, you're doing something else. The thing I do, in addition to Loveshaped Life, is clinical chaplaincy in a behavioral health care setting. And one of the things I notice all the time is the hunger for connection we have in our behavioral health hospital setting, the patients interact with each other. It's it they have separate rooms, but then they're they're open to go hang out at the TV room, etc, and they often, patients often express how healing it is to be with others who are open and authentic about the stuff they're dealing with. There's something powerfully healing about being able to have that connection without all the walls and the superficialities that we kind of cling to outside of those safe

Bob: 14:39

spaces in the way God designed us, it's, it's in our DNA to be part of, yeah, absolutely, absolutely we, especially, like you mentioned, finding a safe space, right? Where that community, where people can be authentic, like, right? And that's best place to grow, best place to grow. Absolutely. It's really part of our DNA. It's part of the Godhead itself, right? Community, that's the way we are created, right? You know? So that's why Loveshaped Life. We're going to be creating this digital space that's right, community to thrive. Yes,

Nathan: 15:15

absolutely, yes. So before we just a little pause commercial here, if you've been following the Loveshaped Life podcast, you have noticed that we'll have like, theological episodes as the ones where you see Bob and I and now Octavio, and then you've noticed that the next season that comes out is stories interviews, and often Bob is doing those interviews. So what we're doing is we're actually splitting our podcast. We're forking it so the Loveshaped Life podcast will continue. But this podcast, which is the Loveshaped Life podcast, will be, each season will be kind of a teaching and the style Bob and I have done in Octavio will be this, continue to be this style. And we're forking the story episodes into another podcast called Story Sessions with Loveshaped Life. And so you'll see the story sessions. It'll be available. They'll be on our YouTube channel, they'll be in the podcast platforms. But we think it'll be nice to have a separate podcast where you can just go through stories. If that's all you want to do, you can listen to stories. And so we're going to do that. The stories that have been recorded will still be available, but we'll have them in the story sessions podcast, and we're going to leave them in the Loveshaped Life podcast lineup, where they are currently, and also on the new plot, the new the new podcast. So just be looking for that Story Sessions with Loveshaped Life. So Ever

Bob: 16:43

wonder what it's like to truly experience God's love? At Loveshaped Life, we're here to guide you on that journey through our weekly emails, podcasts, blogs, coaching and more. We're helping people just like you discover the transformative power of Divine Love.

Nathan: 16:59

Join our community at love shaped dot life and be part of a movement that's changing lives. Loveshaped Life your partner in the journey of seeing, experiencing and living God's love. So we're in episode one of season seven, and we're working through, as I said early in the introduction, working through this mountainside teaching of Jesus, he's got this crowd gathered around him. They it's a crowd we've talked about a couple of times now that has big expectations. They're looking for a leader, figure who will come in, rally the troops, pull the people and resources together to to throw off the the Roman Empire. Quite frankly, they wanted out from under the taxation and the occupation of the Romans this, this was their hope. They they could be in, could be forced to carry the soldiers backpack, or whatever goods a soldier was carrying. They could be forced, just randomly, forced, to carry that for up to a mile down the road. So they were the Roman occupation was invasive, not to mention just the national pride being deeply wounded. So this is the audience, all kinds of people for the Hebrew people, the Jewish people in that audience, there was that underlying longing for a deliverer. And the prophetic tradition said a deliverer is coming. So just help us sort of recapture that setting, and then we're going to have a little conversation, bringing us up to speed, and then we'll get to kind of our, our final transition text, and that'll be the end of this episode.

Bob: 18:51

Just want to mention the crowd again. Yeah, the crowd, and who was in the crowd that though, if you can imagine, the people were farmers. A lot of them were farmers, and this was their land. And so here comes in this other nation, and all of a sudden, you're still farming your land, but you're now really a slave to them. It's not yours anymore. So they the anger, the resentment, the oppression that they felt was just overwhelming. So here they are in this crowd with the hope that Jesus is about to announce how he's going to conquer them so that they could be the rulers. So there was these people in the crowd, along with other people. There was the religious leaders were in the crowd, right? They were checking out Jesus, but they were in the crowd, right? There was some Roman soldiers in the crowd. So there was a wide variety of people, right,

Nathan: 19:48

friends and enemies, people who weren't real happy with what they were hearing, and others who were soaking it up like a deep glass of

Bob: 19:55

cold water. But they came with this anticipation that day, if you can imagine the excitement, right? Like. Going to, if we, you know people who like sports, and they go to a sporting event, and there's an excitement in the air, or a concert, and there's a political rally, a political rally, very good. Yeah, political rallies. There's an excitement there. They're waiting for these great announcements. So they're just waiting for this announcement to hear this Messiah. They saw him announce how he's going to conquer the Romans. You know,

Otavio: 20:22

what's profound about that is like that is a perfect layout of the scenario of the setting as Jesus steps onto the scene here, basically like they are literally expecting, and they have been expecting for quite some time, deliverance. And they're like, this, this seems like this might be the guy at the time, right? And this, this has to be the time like we can't deal with this anymore. And Jesus is, I'm sure they're sitting there and they're just waiting, and they're expecting this, what words are about to come out of his mouth, and he literally hits them with blessed, like, blessed. They're like, Okay, so there's a blessing.

Nathan: 21:13

It's about to be good. It's about to be good. Let's listen.

Otavio: 21:15

Blessed are the poor in spirit. But then here's the transition, and here's the part they probably weren't ready for. For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. He takes and immediately transcends their mind from the dynamics of this world and elevates it to the fact that there's actually something better that is indeed coming and is for you, it might not be fully realized here, but I have something much better, and it's the kingdom of heaven. And so I think that's what's really profound, is they're expecting this earthly deliverance, and he's like, I've got an even better deliverance in store

Bob: 21:56

as beautiful. Can you imagine just those words going through their mind, yeah? Just their brains just kind of like, kind of filter this whole thing through these expectations, and all of a sudden he flips it, and, like you said, he says, Blessed, yeah, they were angry. They were they were they're ready to be blessed and conquering, right, right? Blessed are those who are that are poor in spirit. There's the kingdom.

Nathan: 22:20

Absolutely, yeah, so we can't go all the way back down that trail again. We've been there, but I'm just thinking about today. There is, and I don't know exactly the date we'll release this podcast, but it won't have changed much from today's recording date to release date there is in our home country of America, huge tension between political parties driven by a longing to improve the social climate in America, and all of those people, whatever party they're in their their real interest in that party is the hope that that party will somehow usher in a new era we're overwhelmed by, say, work. I just I talked to a coworker in at the hospital, and this will not be news to like some of you listening 16 hours, five to seven days a week, just to hold on, to have somewhere to live and food on the table, that's tough, right? So this so we're looking whatever political alignment we have. The reason we're part of that alignment is because we hope that they can shift things in our country. So life is easier or more just or or more financially sustainable, whatever we see in our political affiliation, it has to do with something that comes down to the kind of society we have. Those are not those are not the expectations that are much different from the longing in the hearts of the audience to which Jesus was speaking and what he was doing. Can we don't think of kingdoms? We don't we're not a kingdom in America, we would think more of a nation or a civilization, and Jesus is announcing a civilization that runs by different principles than drove any of the political movements. In that case, they didn't have political parties so much. It was the Roman party. Was the party in charge. They had, you know, within the Hebrew people, national parties, the Pharisees and the Sadducees, they had their kind of, their cultural camps. Jesus said none of those are what I'm bringing in. It's something brand new. I think that's the piece I just want to hold. So something new that Jesus is. So are

Bob: 24:49

you saying Jesus would say the same thing to them today, yeah, to us today.

24:54

Something, yeah, absolutely

Bob: 24:56

to like you had mentioned Octavio to. To to raise their mind that there's a better place, right? There's something better, right, you know, and but it's built on different principles,

Nathan: 25:09

right? That what you see and operate within, none of those systems are the way my system works. I'm pulling in something totally new. Fact, in another place. He told near the end of his life, he said, My kingdom is not of this world, like it's not here, the pieces I'm building, the philosophical pieces, et cetera, that I'm building my kingdom with. They're not from the collection of resources on Earth.

Otavio: 25:36

Yeah. And what's powerful and what's important about that, especially as we bring it to today. Like, if we're all honest with ourselves, all of us, we all long for something better. Like, regardless of where you are in life, you're always longing for something better. And the reality is this, you look around, you don't have to look very far to realize there is something fundamentally flawed. There's something fundamentally damaged with the world we live in, which is the reason we have this longing inside for something better. Yeah. And basically, Jesus is pointing out, just like he pointed out there, and he's pointing that out to us today, that the something better we really are longing for is something that transcends, right? Yes. And it starts with him. It starts with a relationship with Him, and that's the key to being able to deal with and handle in a better way, the challenges and the unfortunate dynamics of this world, but also the hope of us to look forward to something even better, beyond this world. That's right,

Bob: 26:43

yes, yeah, because to continue to spin the cycle of one party after another party of ruling, you know, it's still repeating the same thing. There's still longing of our hearts. We still live in a damaged society, in a damaged world. So Jesus was offering us solution, absolutely, and it wasn't just a physical kingdom, but for the here and the now in this world, it was a kingdom from within, right? So Blessed are those who are poor in spirit, right? That's the longing of the heart. Blessed are those who sense their need of God, right? They're blessed because they sense their need of God. And I believe every human being like you mentioned, there's a longing of the human heart. Every human being senses their need of God, right? Whether they respond to it or not, it's up to them, because God is pulling on their say, there's something better,

Nathan: 27:34

yeah, and what I want to say this comes partly from a conversation in the clinical setting this week is don't assume that the God you heard about in church as a child, or that you hear about from some religious person neighbor, whatever is the God that Jesus represents, you might have to leave religion to find this Jesus. So we're devout followers of Jesus, and at the same time, the Jesus that shows up in often in religious studies, is not the Jesus of the same texts are used, but if you compare the narratives, it's not the same Jesus. I just want to say that, like, what we're inviting you into, don't assume that just because we're using the same names and the same texts, that it's the same person in experience. I know that's sort of weird to sort of try. How do you how do you parse that out? I don't know. But just like, just because we're using the same language, don't assume that the that the God that Jesus were holding up is the one that you heard of before. That didn't work.

Otavio: 28:48

Absolutely, you know, it's important to realize each person, every single one of us, we're in a different place, and our journey with Jesus is going to always look different. Major part of the challenge that we deal with in our world, and we talk about political parties and everything like that. The challenge and the issue with political parties is everybody want the one. One group wants everybody to look exactly like them and be exactly like them. The other, it's the same, and it's like we can't what we have to simply be willing to do, and our only role and responsibility in all of this with Jesus is simply give an opportunity for people to encounter Jesus and allow them to be able to go on a journey with Jesus. And that journey for them might look a little bit different than your journey did with Jesus, and that's perfectly okay, yeah, give that space where that can happen, and believe that Jesus is God enough to actually take care of the rest. Yeah? Like, yeah,

Bob: 29:54

yeah. That's good. That's beautiful, right? Yeah. So in regard to your. Mentioning about, don't necessarily affiliate the name Jesus with, maybe perhaps the religion you are right, right? You know Jesus when He came on the scene. This is our third, really season into this inaugural, Inaugural Address of Jesus, for the first time was, was his first public address. But he, you know, when he was communicating, he really, he really destroyed the religion of the day. He did. He did, yeah, totally, he totally, just wiped it out and said, This is a new paradigm shift for you, of how you see God, right, and what it looks like. And I think for all of us today, we need to be willing to, like, wipe the slate clean, right? Like, if we had a painting, we just cleaned the canvas, and we're willing to start over, to allow this new picture that Jesus is portraying to shape the God that we see.

Nathan: 30:52

That's That's awesome. I think that's a beautiful

Bob: 30:55

picture, yeah, and it's difficult. You know, change is difficult for us, so we want to hold on to things like, oftentimes, I was raised this way, I'm going to be this way, and so on. But if you really want to find what God is offering to give you that, to give you that, that satisfy that longing of your heart, you've got to be willing to allow him to shape

Nathan: 31:18

you, right? And I think Jesus faced sort of this challenge of saying, okay, the religion that you see taught that you grew up with, it's really distorted and inaccurate and does not represent me. But don't throw the whole thing out, because actually, there are pieces connected with it are that are true. And part of his mountainside teaching is reclaiming the true pieces. That's the section where he where he says, You, you heard the religious teachers say this, this, this, yeah, don't murder, don't commit adultery. If you look back at chapter five in Matthew, you'll see he references these things, and so he's reclaiming them and and stating, kind of restating what their actual intent was. So pulling them out of like, don't throw them out with throwing out religion, but here's what they're supposed to look like. That's what you think they look like, because that's what you've heard over the years. But here's what they're supposed to look like. So part of what Jesus was doing is walking that line of holding up a genuine, authentic spiritual journey with God, and also throwing out religion. So

Bob: 32:33

he was cleaning the dust, right, right? So let's just say we're cleaning the dust off the Bible, right? Yeah. I like them taking a different look.

Nathan: 32:41

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So that was a big chunk, like the last episode was Jesus cleaning the dust. That was a big focus of the last episode, the transition. And I think most of this, and we have a note here, it says, like, the Pharisaic law, which was, like, the religious leaders, rules versus love. And the point, which was the last part of chapter five, the point of life and the point of knowing God is to love. Well, that's kind of where this comes down to, because there's, there's kind of three major big sections, or four, there's several sections. The first section in this teaching, it has the blessings, the Beatitudes that was the first season. The next section is Jesus dealing with these rules, reclaiming genuine religion from the false pile of stuff that have been piled on it. And then there's a transition, which we're getting into now, where Jesus is going to talk about the religious practices, differentiating genuine religious practices that are healing and life giving from ones that are burdensome and life taking, and so that's kind of where we've come down. Let's talk about that for a minute, unless you had a comment. Well, I just had

Bob: 34:02

a thought as we've journeyed through this, this piece in Scripture, Jesus's conversation. They were coming there, expecting an earthly kingdom, you know. And then Jesus flips it, and he talks about the spiritual kingdom that begins inside of you, right, you know. So it was not a warfare, a physical warfare, that they were going to engage in, but it was a spiritual kingdom of God dwelling within. And that's how they were going to conquer the evil in the world, by being, like Jesus said, the light of the world, or by being the salt of the earth. And then he, he's, he's saying to them that he then he transitions and saying, but the spiritual kingdom is not like what you see, right? It's not what you've seen from the religious leaders. It's not really what you've been taught. It's like you said. He's He's, well I mentioned he's dusting it off, right? So there's still some good don't throw it all out. But he was really specifically targeting saying that. Now I'm going to teach you, you know, and differentiate between what is really of me and what is not right. And I think that's so important for us in our journey with God, is to be open to God just teaching us really, what really matters, you know, what? What, what? It's all about. So he it's interesting to me how he goes through this journey with them, coming with these expectations. He destroys even their expectations of an earthly kingdom, switches it to the spiritual kingdom. Then he begins to tell them it's not like the religious one you're used

Nathan: 35:37

to. I love that because it tells me that if I see problems in religion, it's okay. That's kind of expected, yeah, oh, yeah. And it doesn't mean that religion itself is all garbage, so I don't need to sort of lose my faith or get totally unsettled. It just means that there's a lot of garbage in religion.

Otavio: 35:59

Yeah, absolutely. The garbage in religion takes place when we lose sight of the personal nature of religion. We lose sight of the personal God, like that, that and it starts there. We lose sight of the personhood of people, you know. So once we now lose sight of the personhood of God and how this whole religion thing is supposed to be a personal, relational thing, we've now set ourselves up perfectly to lose sight of the value of people, and in so doing, then that's when the whole thing gets distorted. That's when it starts to look away, that you're like, wait a minute, this just doesn't quite feel right. So, yeah,

Bob: 36:51

no, that's that's really good, because really what Jesus was communicating seemed to communicate was, again, what really matters, relationship with God and a relationship with others, right? So the bottom line, that's why the bottom line and Christianity is love for God and love for others, yeah. And so what happens is when, when man, sorry, when man comes in, and I put ourselves in that category, and we lose sight of that, yes, we end up adding, right, all this other stuff, right? That causes the confusion, right, right? And then it switches to to our opinions and our thoughts about serving God is higher than what God says himself,

Nathan: 37:30

right? And, no, that's good. No, you're great. And I think you mentioned Christianity, and it's a hard thing to say, but I think it's worth saying that we're not talking about the religion Christianity. We're talking about the way of Jesus in Scripture. And I think there is actually a difference. Oh yes, there are. There are people who consider themselves Christians, which we would consider ourselves Christians, but Christians whose lives, who are committed to the way of Jesus being what we call Christianity rather than the religion Christianity. Again, it's sort of dicey trying to draw a line there, but I think it's worth calling out, because it's not the way of Jesus and Christianity, in some popular forms, is it's just not on the same

Bob: 38:16

page. Yeah, I just want to say I mentioned to you guys earlier about a young man that I met a couple weeks ago that he was visiting from out of state, and he was at a group that we were at. We were having a little Bible study, and I just asked him about his journey, and he said, Listen, you know, my dad's an atheist, my mom's of this religion, and then all my relatives are of different brands of religion. But he said, All I want is my Bible, and I just want to seek God for myself, to know God. Here's this 21 year old, seeing the confusion in the religious world, but desiring an authentic relationship with God. Yeah. So at this point his journey, he said to me, he said, I don't want to be labeled, right? I just want to know, God, yeah. And I think that's says a lot for a lot of people up

Otavio: 39:07

and that's okay, yeah, absolutely okay. Because when you take on a label, sometimes you feel like, if I take this label, I'm taking on both what might be considered the good of that label, but also what I have been able to look at and clearly see is not the good of that label. That is perfectly okay. What Jesus is concerned about is people getting an opportunity to know him. Yeah, absolutely. That's it. Know him and experience the beauty of His love and what it means to love others. That's what it's all about. Amen, forget the labels, like if it's a barrier, whatever, get take the barrier out of the way. But look, Jesus is attractive. Jesus is inviting, right? So that's what the focus needs to be.

Bob: 39:55

So in this inaugural address, this, this when he begins to communicate. Eight he's really laying that as a part of that foundation, that relationship with God and a relationship with each other. This is the foundation of what really matter, right? Yes, absolutely. So oftentimes in a religious world, and again, we're not trying to say that all religion is bad, because it's not what we're just explaining how when you add things to religion, oftentimes in that religious world, that's lost sight, yeah, yeah, right, that that really relationships are what's such an important thing is the

Nathan: 40:32

foundation. That's right. So we got to wrap up this episode. I want to say one, one of the core pieces of the Loveshaped Life ecosystem is coaching, spiritual wellness coaching, we call it, and if you want someone to walk alongside you as you figure out what spiritual wellness looks like for you, check out our love shape, life coaching. You can do that at love shape. Dot life slash coaching. Our coaches are not here to tell you what to believe. We're here to process, to walk with you in that journey as you figure out sort of what's the toxic stuff you want to leave in the past, what's the good stuff you want to pick up and move forward with? How do you walk that road? So again, wherever you're at. We're here to be someone to walk alongside you as you try to figure that out, and you can connect with us spiritual at love shape, dot life slash coaching. It's crowdfunded, so we don't charge for our coaching support. And just want to make that I mean that can be so valuable to have somebody I know I was in a time where I was going through what I would call a reboot, a spiritual reboot, and I needed somebody else who who could see farther ahead than I could see at that moment to walk with me and help me into what I would call new spiritual territory. That's what our coaches are here for, absolutely. So we always wrap up with three questions. What do you see? Your big takeaway? What do you see? Like? What do you see from this episode? What would you say is the big idea about who God is that you would say we should hold on to as we wrap up?

Bob: 42:15

Wow. Well, that's, that's, that's a loaded question, I would say, in regard to the beginning of again, this sermon, as we call it, is referred to in the Christian world. Sermon on the mount is God's love for human beings, that he would become one of us and seek to stand there before broken human beings, to tell us and to, you know, give up everything, to leave heaven and come become one of us, to tell us about the beauty of who he is and his kingdom, that we might be drawn to him, not forced, right, not manipulated, not coerced, but drawn by love. And that's, that's what I see, the heart of God.

Nathan: 43:02

Absolutely, that's amazing.

Otavio: 43:04

Do you want to add to that? Yeah, I would just simply one small thing to add to that is just simply the love of God. Like he progresses them through you're poor in spirit, and he just walks them through and gets them ultimately to the place of what your heart is longing for most. Is not really the overthrowing of the Romans. It's actually my love.

Nathan: 43:26

Yes, yes, good. So the second question

Bob: 43:29

that's hard not to that, you know, he looked beyond all of their expectations, and he knew he was going to disappoint them, right, right. So oftentimes we have expectations of God, and we end up disappointed, but God's given us something better, absolutely. Yeah, that's awesome. He was giving him something better, yeah. So, you know, just want to say for those of you are listening, if you have, oftentimes you feel disappointed, because what you perceive is God has let you down, that he's got something better for you. Just open yourself up to see and to be led

Nathan: 44:07

to that. Yeah, that's beautiful. The second question experience, what would you say from today's episode is, is the peace the way that we begin to experience deeper spiritual wellness.

Otavio: 44:24

It's, it's love. I mean, I'm not trying to just over simplify this thing and like, but really it's, it's that thing that our heart really longs for the most.

Nathan: 44:36

How would you say we experience that? Like, let it in. So it's an idea out here. How do we let that in? Start

Otavio: 44:42

with Jesus, like literally, start with Jesus and look at how he interacts. Look at how the way he you see him, relate to people, those people in the Bible, is exactly the same way he relates to you. So

Nathan: 44:59

we're talking. About like the Matthew, one of the writers, exactly, Mark, Luke, John. Those are found in the Christian Bible. Yeah, those books tell his story.

Otavio: 45:08

They tell his story, and they show who he is. They show how he works, how he interacts, the the way he deals with people is just so inviting. We could jump into so many different things, but it's just so it's exactly what the human heart longs for, the experience that we're longing for, and it starts with him, and then as that starts with him, bring that to others like reflect that. So I'm seeing, wow, this is what it means to be loved. This is what it means to love. So you're

Nathan: 45:41

kind of going into the last one, which is live, right? So we don't just want to soak in, soak in, soak in, but the way of Jesus is a soaking in that then is an outflowing

Bob: 45:51

absolutely so on experience, on my end, that we have this saying here at Loveshaped Life, you know, to lean into a love-shaped life, right? So experience wise, we have to make a choice that I'm going to choose to respond to the to what I'm seeing, what God is offering, right? So you mentioned love. So God is offering all of us that we are fully known and fully loved by but I still have to make a choice to say yes, in spite of who I am, perhaps in spite of what I've done, or where I'm at, I'm choosing to lean in right like you had mentioned earlier in your experience, Octavio, when you were seeking God, you came to the point to say, I've had enough of this life. Yes, I'm choosing to lean into this life and allow God to do his work. It's not about you working yourself up to God, it's not about you cleaning your own life up. It's about him living in you and transforming your life so that, right?

Nathan: 46:53

That's awesome, yeah, so mash that Like button. Subscribe, share with a friend if you've enjoyed this, this podcast, or whether you're YouTube or audio, share with a friend, and until next time, lean into the love-shaped life. Thank you so much for tuning into the Loveshaped Life podcast. We hope you find this podcast not only inspirational, but life changing here at Loveshaped Life, we're working to create a community, an online community, in fact, where individuals like you can connect with each other and lean into God's love together.

Bob: 47:32

We also provide spiritual wellness coaching, where we walk alongside people to help them to see the beauty of God's character, discover if there's anything that might be hindering them from finding the healing power that's in that love

Nathan: 47:46

and as you might have expected, Loveshaped Life is crowdfunded. Individuals like you give generously to make this dream a reality. If you'd like to join that crowd, you can give today at loveshaped dot life.